Trying to save a Super C

Farmall C & Super C Tractors, 1948-1954

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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:51 pm

Just an update on what I did this weekend.

I got the brake working, you were right Jim. Stepping on the brake pedal a few times helped to get the wheel to turn in both directions.
All I did with the brake was take it apart and cleaned up the discs and steel balls with scotch brite, sand paper and a little brake clean. I didn't
lubricate the balls or anything else. I wasn't sure if I should or what to use.

Now that I had the wheel spinning I moved on to look at the engine.

I unscrewed the plug at the bottom of the oil pan and only a small amount of water came out, the rest was oil.
I then pulled the valve cover (pic below)

Image

With the valve cover off and the plug from the oil pan out I thought it might be good to try and flush it out a little with some
diesel so I did and some nasty looking stuff came out. I then filled it with some 10w30 oil with the valve cover off to get some oil on the valves and shaft assembly.

With the spark plugs out and some more mystery oil in the cylinders I decided to see if I could put it in gear and get it to turn over with the wheel still being blocked up.
And with much relief all cylinders turned. I'm glad its not seized.

One thing I noticed while I had the valve cover off is that some of the valve lifter rods are bent and not lined up. Another pic

Image

So how do the valve lifters attach and how hard is it to replace them?
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:41 pm

Eric85 wrote:Some of the valve lifter rods are bent and not lined up. So how do the valve lifters attach and how hard is it to replace them?
To replace the push rods loosen the nut on the rocker arm and back up the screw. You can use the valve tappet adjustment sequence to obtain a bit more clearance during push rod installation. If that doesn't provide enough room to remove (simply lift out) and install push rods, loosen the entire valve train assembly.

Bad news. Something stuck, typically valves, causing the bent push rods.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:31 pm

I figured it was bad news.

So what are my options?

Tonight before dark I pulled off the exhaust manifold and looked inside at the valves.
Things didn't look good. There was 3 or 4 that had a lot of rust on them. I sprayed them all down
with mystery oil and put things back together.
I figured I would let them soak for a day or two.

What is the best way to get them moving again?
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:56 pm

Eric85 wrote:What is the best way to get them moving again?
OK. Is this your first engine rebuild?

You need to assess the entire engine before spending any money or significant effort on salvaging or fixing one piece.

Start with pulling the head and removing the pan. Remove pistons - if stuck push out the piston with the sleeve.

Head, remove the valve springs. Soak valve stems with solvent for a week. You may need to press the valves out of the valve stems. Check each valve and seat condition.

If block in not cracked and the crankshaft is still serviceable or reworkable condition then the engine can be rebuilt.

If the tractor were mine, I would split it, put the engine on the engine stand. Completely disassemble, measure and record. Then figure out what I needed for parts and machine work.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:51 am

If you can turn the engine over you can watch the valves go up and down and see if any are stuck. Now that the valve cover is off... Those pushrods could have been bent for a long long time.

If your goal here right now is to hear it run again, you can "redneck it" to a certain extent without causing issues.

Look up a channel on youtube called "ElderlyIron." The latest several videos show how the host resurrects a 389 cubic inch V8 engine. A lot of it applies to your situation. He goes through checking compression, freeing stuck valves, rebuilding the carburetor, and by the end he has that old engine running pretty good, all without a complete teardown.
Last edited by Matt Kirsch on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:57 am

This would be my first engine rebuild.

I guess I have to make the decision to try and get the valves working again and replaceing the push rods
or getting it inside where I can totally tear it down and rebuild it.

How hard of a job is it to rebuild this engine and where is a good place to buy the rebuild kit from?

Also are there any good books/ manauls that shows a good step by step process on rebuilding one of these engines?
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:51 pm

Eric85 wrote:How hard of a job is it to rebuild this engine
Tough question. Hard part is to accurately measure each part and determine a course of action. Second part is do you have the mechanics tools to accomplish the task?
Where is a good place to buy the rebuild kit from?
Engine parts are available from your local auto parts store, implement dealers, and numerous catalog/online dealers. Rebuild kit - Do not purchase any parts without knowing exactly what you need and specifications.
Also are there any good books/manuals that shows a good step by step process on rebuilding one of these engines?
Try your local library first. Any number of reference sources are available - some great and some very bad. Suggest obtaining the parts and service manual for your tractor. The parts and service manual are a must have.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:29 am

Before you dive headlong into an engine overhaul, find out if it's really necessary. You'll learn a bunch just tinkering with the engine to see if you have a runner. Get the valve train straightened out and do a compression check.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:50 pm

I think your right Matt, I have to find out if I can make it run or not with out doing a engine rebuild.

I am thinking about at least pulling the valve lever and shaft assembly then pulling the head. I figured this way it
would give me a closer look inside and I could clean up the valves with the head off.
I would also drop the oil pan at this time.

I'm pretty good mechanically but this would be a first for me. I do have a service manual that my dad bought a few years ago from
Jensales and have been studing it some.

Looking for advice and any info on how to do a job like this.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eugene » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:44 pm

Eric85 wrote:I am thinking about at least pulling the valve lever and shaft assembly then pulling the head. This would give me a closer look inside and I could clean up the valves with the head off. I would also drop the oil pan at this time.
Start spraying the valve stems above the valve guides with quality solvent. Once you get the head off you will need to remove the valves. Then you can inspect each valve and seat.

Plastigage each bearing when you remove the pan. This will tell you the clearance on the main and rod bearings and give you some indication of the journals condition. Plastigage has gone up in price, guessing $4- for a stick of .003 - .006. Back side of each bearing insert will indicate it's size.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:54 am

It looks like this project might have to wait till the spring time. We have over a foot of snow now.
But I'm wondering what I'll need to get for tools and parts to pull the head and remove the valves. Are there any special
tools i should get?
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:38 pm

A can of Kroil. :D
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby TWheat » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:01 pm

I don't know of any special tools. You will need a new head gasket and maybe a valve cover gasket.
There is a hold down bolt in the middle part of the valve lifter assembly that has a hole drilled up through it for an oil passage.
Don't lose it or re-assemble it in the wrong place.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby Eric85 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:55 pm

Thanks every bit of info helps.

Did all the super c's have the same engine? I'm wondering because when I go to order
parts I want to make sure that I'm ordering parts for the right engine.

Here are some of the numbers I pullled off the tractor, can anyone help me to figure out the year and engine.

Serial number found under the seat

148892

Model: FC-

1815 RPM

Some numbers that were behind the oil filter 354898 R1

and some other numbers behind the distributor 4-30 then some thing that looks like an X.
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Re: Trying to save a Super C

Postby TWheat » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:55 pm

Are you asking about bearings, rings, pistons, ei internal parts?
If so are you close to a CaseIH Dealer? If not call Ken Updike at Carter.&Gruenwald, co-sponsors of this website
with the #s you posted and he will get you the right parts.
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