New Wall

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Re: New Wall

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:07 pm

[quote="Barnyard"]Bob, The window will be for Cubfest antendees to walk up and get any tools they need. Jeff Silvey will be satnding there and fetching anythin that is needed. Actually I have a big AC wall unit that will be going in there. As long as I leave the slider door open when it is in use it will work fine.
Dang! bob was hoping for a walk up, ice cream window. I was hoping it was a (cub) drive up window, at the donut shop!
AC is nice. heat is nice I have both in my small shop. Ed
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Re: New Wall

Postby beaconlight » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:16 pm

Can you figure where you used to have the time to go to work? I been retired since 1985 and can't figure how I had time to fit work in.
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Re: New Wall

Postby CapeCodCubs » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:55 pm

Boss Hog wrote:Yes Bill stand it up, It may not be important but it is the strongest way. I am sure a contractor is a member of the board somewhere and I feel that he or she will agree with me.It will also help to square the wall up.

Not a contractor but am a structural engineer...David is correct. This wall also will act as a shear wall to prevent the barn from racking if installed properly. If it is temporary then do whatever...

ScottyD'sdad wrote: AC is nice. heat is nice I have both in my small shop. Ed


Ed I think AC means air conditioning not Alternating Current... :?
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Re: New Wall

Postby Rudi » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Hmmm something I can get my teeth into :D :wink:

As far as schooling goes I am an Architectural Design Technologist - fancy words for an architectural draughtsman, with a major in building construction and minor in casework. I am also a licensed building contractor (inter-provincially licensed), and have built a fair amount of walls in my lifetime :) What Bill has done will be fine for a temporary application - although I am one who would much rather build a temporary wall that can be re-purposed into a permanent wall when all is said and done. There are a few areas that would need attention and I am sure that Bill is aware of them.


Boss Hog wrote:Yes Bill stand it up, It may not be important but it is the strongest way. I am sure a contractor is a member of the board somewhere and I feel that he or she will agree with me.


David, sorry I cannot agree with you. Standing sheets up is totally wrong! There is no stability there and definitely will not prevent racking. As Bill did, laying the 4x8 sheet longitudinally ensuring that the sole plate and bottom edge of the OSB are parallel and ensuring that the lateral factory edge is perpendicular to the floor will help ensure that the wall itself is square. To verify - basic Pythagorean theory will prove that. Each succeeding sheet on the first row should but perfectly to the first sheet and the longitudinal factory edge should be perfectly parallel to the sole plate. The sole plate may need shimming between the existing concrete if the floor is not level. The next sheet on the second row should also be laid longitudinally but may only overlap a maximum of 1/2 of the sheet. Each succeeding sheet on each layer above the first layer needs to be offset/staggered. This prevents racking.

Chris:

CapeCodCubs wrote:It will also help to square the wall up. Not a contractor but am a structural engineer...David is correct. This wall also will act as a shear wall to prevent the barn from racking if installed properly. If it is temporary then do whatever...


Same thing, sorry cannot agree entirely with your statement. The wall will indeed act as a shear wall, will also have some compressive strength although limited without the double studs. However this wall will provide little deflective prevention and could belly if there is too much racking or compressive stress. It should also have a double top plate which would add greatly to it's inherent strengths especially in deflection. Orientating the sheets vertically instead of horizontally will actually take away stability and probably will in many cases contribute to the wall being out of square and will definitely encourage racking instead of preventing it.

We had an old trick to demonstrate this back when I was a smoker. A large pack of cigarettes measured 3" on the vertical edge and 4" on the horizontal edge. Diagonally this measured 5" -- hmmmmm sounds a lot like a Pythagorean situation. Vertically the pack would flex, horizontally the pack would flex substantially less (this is an unsupported example as in not fastened to anything, but does serve the purpose for those who need to see things physically, it also helped apprentices understand the application of the math they learned but could not apply it in the real world).

Watch a good reputable framing/sheathing contractor and they will prove my point. Same with watching a good reputable dry-waller and see how they install drywall. Same way, horizontal orientation and staggered joints.

Much of what I learned in theory in school had to be re-evaluated once in the field and actually building what someone designed. This is where my apprenticeship in furniture/casework and building construction was useful as I studied design. Also having a minor in building construction concurrently with my design major really impressed upon me the absolute value of practical field experience for someone involved in design. Many journeyman/master tradespeople will no doubt agree with this.
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Re: New Wall

Postby beaconlight » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:52 pm

Rudi with non bearing walls in sky scrapers the dry wall is installed vertical to have fewer seams and those that are taped are always on the long edges that are recessed. It provides a smoother look particularly on long walls. This way there are no 4 foot full thickness edges to be taped.
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Re: New Wall

Postby Rudi » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:02 pm

Bill:

In curtain wall construction that would indeed be the case. They are non load bearing. You can do some weird stuff in a curtain wall setting. And yes since there are no compressive/deflective or shear forces on a non-load bearing wall in a curtain wall setting and all the load is on the structural steel, go with the easiest - in this case a 4x8 or 5x10 sheet on the vertical - yes 1/2 the taping. But that would be the only exception to the base rule.

Course, I don't think BoB qualifies for curtain wall or a skyscraper :roll: :lol:
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Re: New Wall

Postby CapeCodCubs » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:04 pm

Rudi...sheathing is stronger vertically on a full wall coverage....no horizontal joints. It should also run vertically on shear walls....seeing this is a temporary partition...makes no difference. I do see it's inherant use as a shear wall in the course of it's temporary life. When the world ends Friday it won't matter much anywho.
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Re: New Wall

Postby Barnyard » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:14 pm

I'm glad I gave you guys something to discuss. I didn't post this for advice, merely to show that I was finally going to get some temporary heat in the shop. My other choice was to hang a tarp and seal it with duct tape but I had a hard time deciding what color tarp would look best.
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Re: New Wall

Postby Boss Hog » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:17 pm

I did not mean to cause a discussion when I posted, just thought I was helping.
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Re: New Wall

Postby Rudi » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Bill:

It was enjoyable. I used the tarp method if you remember ..green was my choice of colour mostly cause that was the largest tarp I had. :big smile:
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Re: New Wall

Postby Paul Wells » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:54 pm

As someone who has framed a few wood stud walls in my years of working on houses,apartment building and other residential and commercial buildings. On a typical structural wall the sheathing is run horizontaly. If you are useing OSB or plywood the joints are staggerd and a 1/8 in gap between the lower and upper run for exspansion. If you install wall sheathing vertically two panels are joined on one stud and you are depending on that one stud not to fail If you have purlins or blocking between the studs the wall is much stronger.
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Re: New Wall

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:20 pm

I think everyone is overlooking the fact that this is an interior partition wall that has no intended structural function.

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Re: New Wall

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:47 pm

Bob McCarty wrote:I think everyone is overlooking the fact that this is an interior partition wall that has no intended structural function.

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Re: New Wall

Postby brichter » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:05 pm

I would certainly add a gusset here or there
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Re: New Wall

Postby Mr E » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:11 pm

brichter wrote:I would certainly add a gusset here or there



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