Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby jlmason81 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:31 am

Guys,

Here is my $.02. I have used this Loctite 660 as a test for Don Eicher at DeFarmallCubs.com with great success. With this product I never had to removed the retainer from the back of the engine. I split the tractor about 6 inches, pushed out the old seal, cleaned the retainer, placed the sealant on the rear seal, pushed & twist the new seal into place, and then put the tractor back together. It took me 1-1/2 hour to do the entire process. By the time I got the tractor back together the sealant was set and I was back in business.
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby cub47 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:38 am

Using sealants or adhesives is fine, I just always always neglected to utilize them due to the contamination possibility as Gary mentioned.
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby Landreo » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:27 pm

tractordad wrote:
Both the ID and the OD of a seal needs to be a snug flush fit. Both the OD and the ID of a seal is exposed to lubricants. A clean bore with a tight fitting seal does not require sealant. It is not recommended to use sealant on any seal that has a “rubber” OD. The staking of the seal to prevent spinning is really a last resort approach. The problem with the rear retainer is I have not seen a seal with the proper fit, so options are very limited. Also, always be sure not to “cock” a seal on installation. It is a good practice to seat the seal as long as there is a retaining area or seat to set the seal against. This assures it is square on installation. A cocked seal in a bore will fail early.



I picked out a few good points from tractordad's post.

The correct seal in the correct bore will not need any sealant or any special treatment. The correct seal is what IHC used and a replacement is out there. A steel seal is not correct. The problem is the retainer.. warped too much and the seal will not stay in the retainer. A retainer within tolerance with a rubber seal will work and be leak free.

I do not see how staking would help if the seal is loose. All staking will do is tighten in a few spots but not 360 degrees.

However, if you must use a loose fitting steel seal then some sort of sealant may be better than nothing. Loctite makes a seal retainer compound, may be the 660 as above but I thought it was another number.
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby jlmason81 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:32 pm

I should have probably noted that I only use Case IH parts. The Case IH rear seal is all rubber and fits fairly snug, just not a press in fit like the factory. I have used both a black permetex and the Locktite 660 and prefer the Locktite 660 which is a Retaining Compound. I think Brian also has a great way to repair this issue. So regardless which method is used I believe there will be success.
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby cub47 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:50 pm

Landreo wrote:
I do not see how staking would help if the seal is loose. All staking will do is tighten in a few spots but not 360 degrees.


The staking method keeps the seal in a fixed position within the retainer and prevents spinning or loosening. The staking method is not intended to create an air tight seal. As Gary mentioned, it must be installed tightly into the seat lip to prevent leaks.
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:45 pm

Well guys, much ado about nothing I guess. The new seal that geibes included with the tractor was a good snug tap-in fit. No way it's going to rotate.

After I get the clutch and pressure plate hung back on, I'll be ready to slide 'er back together.
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby lazyuniondriver » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:17 pm

tractordad wrote:I need to chime in on this. I’ve spent years as a district sales manager for Stemco.


Good write up, good information. Thanks. Stemco has been around quite a while and is a pioneer in the seal and installation tool industry.
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby challenger » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:13 pm

About two years ago, I had a rear seal that was leaking and turning in the retainer. The new seal I bought could be pushed into the housing with my fingers. It should be noted the the aluminum Cub retainer exacerbates the seal problem because it has a higher expansion co-efficient than the steel seal.

I settled on using Loctite 660 for the new seal. It is a gray viscous paste that has the ability to stay put and span a slightly larger gap than the liquid type. Make sure the seal and housing surfaces are squeeky clean of oil before applying the paste. I have not had any problem with this fix.

When mounting the aluminum seal retainer back on the engine block, make sure you first drop the pan slightly to allow the seal in the retainer to float to its natural center on the crank. Then carefully install and tighten down the retainer to the block without distrubing the natural center established on the crank. After you have carefully tightened the bolts holding the retainer to the engine block, install and tighten down the two pan bolts in the bottom of the retainer without stripping the aluminum threads or overtightening the remaining pan bolts in the engine block.

http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/93755_Loctite_660_Quick_Metal_Retaining_Compound.pdf
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby jlmason81 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:39 pm

Matt,

I would consider the expansion of the retainer creating a problem with the way the seal fits. That is the reason something needs to be added. If nothing is done it is just a matter of time before you will need to split it again, buy another new seal, and do it over. You should either stake it as cubguy47 suggest or use the Loctite 660. I think the 660 is less than $10 a tube and will definetley create less headache in the future JMO.

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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby Hengy » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:33 pm

Thanks to Landreo, I have a rubber edged seal that I am going to install into Lewis when I split him this Winter. I am confident that I'll be happy with the results based on my conversation with him.

I'll report back after I have a chance to work the tractor a bit!
Mike (Happy as a Lark in Allison Park, PA)
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Re: Green loctite/bearing mount adhesive for rear main seal

Postby tractordad » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:40 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Well guys, much ado about nothing I guess. The new seal that geibes included with the tractor was a good snug tap-in fit. No way it's going to rotate.

After I get the clutch and pressure plate hung back on, I'll be ready to slide 'er back together.



Matt,

Would you have the part number off the actual seal you installed? The reason I ask many OE distributors such as Case/IH will put their OE part # on the box but the seal will have the manufactures part # on it. I can tell you that Case/IH does not make any seals themselves.
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