Clutch

Farmall Super A, AV, 1939 - 1954

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Re: Clutch

Postby JackF » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:43 am

If the clutch assembly is in correctly it has to be in the throw-out bearing clutch linkage area. What type of throw-out bearing did you use? The old style graphite bearing will bog the engine down but will not stop the engine
You’re going to have to look through the inspection hole to see what’s going on. Have someone push the clutch pedal all the way down, and see if the clutch disk is loose between the pressure plate and flywheel.
I did a “C” clutch a while back and they had an early and late style release bearing carrier. One was a little longer for the old style graphite bearing.

Just thinking…Is the throw-out bearing pressed on the the release bearing carrier all the way? ….And if you’re using the new style throw-out bearing and… if you did put it on backwards the clutch pressure plate fingers may just barely be hitting the inner race of the throw-out bearing and maybe causing excess friction and not too much noise.
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Re: Clutch

Postby DanR » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:13 am

I understand but did you specify a brand of clutch when ordering? One company might be thinking Auburn and the other Rockford. The parts will not interchange.
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Re: Clutch

Postby Mr Joshua » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:49 am

Dan
I ordered ick201. It's a kit that has the tob pilot an clutch all together. Off hand I am not sure the maker without calling them.

Jack it is a new style tob. If I remember correctly there was only one way the bearing would fit on the carrier. I'll have to look to see if it's passed the end of the carrier. I pretty sure it is. I can't work on it to night but I would like to add extra grease to the tob and readjust. I would also like to see if it will shift into gear with the clutch not all the way in. It's making me wonder if it's allowing it to be pressed too far. I

One last comment. I never did any adjustment on the actual fingers on the clutch. I had read somewhere that all adjustment should be made by the linkage
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Re: Clutch

Postby JackF » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:41 am

Josh,

Yes, try to see if the transmission is functional and goes into gear with the clutch pedal not all the way depressed. If the clutch pressure plate fingers are “over extending” sometimes you will hear a little chattering noise and at times feel a “over center feeling” through the clutch pedal fully depressed. With the new style throw-out bearing functional it should not stop the engine from running and in my thinking even slow engine RPM’s even with the clutch pressure plate fingers that are “over extending”.

Try this if you can…Engine not running, clutch pedal fully released get a long screw driver go through the inspection hole(make sure the release bearing has clearance away from the clutch pressure plate fingers) and see if you can turn the outer race of the throw-out bearing.

The clutch pressure plate fingers should have been pre adjusted at the factory. You can visually check this by checking the clearance from the clutch pressure plate fingers to the throw-out bearing. Usually all adjustments should be made by the clutch linkage.
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Re: Clutch

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:55 pm

Where are you measuring the free play again?

If you are measuring 1" at the TOP of the pedal, that is way too little free play.

Normally free play is measured where the pedal contacts the platform, but IIRC the A/Super A is measured at the top of the pedal, but it's more like 3-1/2" of free play.

What you're trying to do is pop the engine off the front of the tractor with the clutch pedal. No wonder it's bogging down.
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Re: Clutch

Postby Mr Joshua » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:15 pm

Yes matt at the top of the pedal. I thought that's what the manual said to do. I'll have to adjust it to have more play cause that makes more sense. I'll see if I can do it tonight before I go out of town. Thanks everyone. We will see how it works out
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Re: Clutch

Postby Jim Becker » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:27 pm

That clutch is supposed to have 1 to 1 1/4 inches of free play AT THE FACE OF THE PEDAL. This should maintain 3/16 between the throwout bearing and the fingers.
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Re: Clutch

Postby Mr Joshua » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:54 pm

Thank you Jim. I will see what happens when I adjust it.
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Re: Clutch

Postby Mr Joshua » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:39 pm

What is the difference between the two clutches? The one that's in it looks different from the one in our c and a. The fingers look different. I see a little wear on the fingers but nothing major. But I have noticed the the fingers only hit the rounded edge of the tob. Also I have noticed the actual clutch does not actuate when the pedal is pressed in. I is the clutch bad? Or possibly the wrong one? Just dies not seem right. Tob spins nicely.
Mr. Joshua

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Re: Clutch

Postby Mr Joshua » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:03 pm

JackF wrote:If the clutch assembly is in correctly it has to be in the throw-out bearing clutch linkage area. What type of throw-out bearing did you use? The old style graphite bearing will bog the engine down but will not stop the engine
You’re going to have to look through the inspection hole to see what’s going on. Have someone push the clutch pedal all the way down, and see if the clutch disk is loose between the pressure plate and flywheel.
I did a “C” clutch a while back and they had an early and late style release bearing carrier. One was a little longer for the old style graphite bearing.

Just thinking…Is the throw-out bearing pressed on the the release bearing carrier all the way? ….And if you’re using the new style throw-out bearing and… if you did put it on backwards the clutch pressure plate fingers may just barely be hitting the inner race of the throw-out bearing and maybe causing excess friction and not too much noise.

Jack
Just a thought is the bearing supposed to be pressed on? If I remember correctly this one slid on one way but would not go on the other way. I wonder if I really did put it on backwards.
Mr. Joshua

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Re: Clutch

Postby JackF » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:14 am

Josh,

Did you check like Jim stated?: “That clutch is supposed to have 1 to 1 1/4 inches of free play AT THE FACE OF THE PEDAL “3/16" between the throw-out bearing and the clutch pressure plate fingers”.

The “C” throw-out bearing I put on fit tight on the carrier and I was able to put it on without a press and stopped where the machining stopped on the throw-out bearing carrier.

You stated: Also I have noticed the actual clutch does not actuate when the pedal is pressed in.
If you have the specs like Jim stated, you’re going to have to look through the inspection hole to see what’s going on. Have someone push the clutch pedal all the way down, and see if the clutch pressure plate is retracting from the clutch disk.

Posted are some pictures I came up with to try to help. Illustrated is the clutch disk which should be installed with the damper springs toward the transmission.

Image
The throw-out bearing center race installed against the clutch pressure plate fingers. Image


Also I found an illustration on Farmall.com from Mr. Finch with a throw-out bearing installed

Image



I found this video on the internet for an “H”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQI1S6BHGYw&feature=player_detailpage
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Re: Clutch

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:57 am

Mr Joshua wrote:What is the difference between the two clutches? The one that's in it looks different from the one in our c and a. The fingers look different. I see a little wear on the fingers but nothing major. But I have noticed the the fingers only hit the rounded edge of the tob. Also I have noticed the actual clutch does not actuate when the pedal is pressed in. I is the clutch bad? Or possibly the wrong one? Just dies not seem right. Tob spins nicely.


There are two different clutches, Rockford (tractor serial number has J suffix) and Auburn (serial number has no suffix). Rockford clutches are installed in nearly all the tractors.

Over the years, the design of the replacement units has evolved too. Even if all the tractors have Rockford clutches, they may look a bit different due to the fact that they were replaced 20, 30, 40, 50 years apart.

Now, are you SURE there is absolutely no movement on the clutch when you press the pedal? If so that is your problem.

If there is absolutely no movement at the pressure plate fingers, you should not be able to shift with the engine running. It was my understanding that you could shift with the engine running. Is that not the case?

Be aware that you will not see any large movement on pressure plate. Your large movement of the pedal translates into a much smaller movement by the throwout bearing, which translates into an even smaller movement at the pressure plate fingers. You must look carefully.
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