Electrolysis Tank Question

Was wondering what the result is of a part that still has paint on it and rust. Are you suppose to remove paint first? Does this solution remove paint or is the rust the only thing affected? I visited Rudi's server with the 3 examples and didn't pick up on any procedures. Thanks

Electrolysis Tanks

The electrolysis process tends to remove loose paint along with rust. I add a small amount of Drano to the vat to help loosen difficult paint spots. Some recommend against adding Drano but I have not detected any problems with it. Perhaps someone who thinks that it should not be used will explain why. Dan

I have not yet tried it myself, but have closely watched to posts about it. From what I've read it will as Dan said remove loose paint, but since it is a reaction with the metal, if the paint is good and tight it may soften it, but does not competely remove it.

Rick:

I just pop it all into the tank. I usually let a part sit for a while. Time is of no consequence (or at least it wasn't a while ago :roll: ), so letting the part sit an extra 24 hours is no biggie. The average length of time for a cleaning cycle is 48 hours which is just arbitrary, but I have found that grease, goop, dirt, 99% of the paint and all of the rust is usually gone or removeable with the 4-1/2" grinder and a twisted wire brush.

Judging by your questions, it might be an idea to expand on the topic and put in a how to. This is not the first time and probably will not be the last time this question was asked.

Oh, also, it probably isn't needed. But I sometimes I will top up the tank with an extra cup or two of TSP. There is a point where it will make no difference, but that I doubt would be reached before one needed to drain and clean the tank.

In defference to Dan, I kind of disagree. I would never put Drano in the tank...... Drano is pretty caustic on it's own. Adding it to TSP or Washing Soda is to my mind kind of risky seeing as I regularily have my hands in the tank. Power off of course :roll:

Again my friend, thank you for the step. It arrived last night and it is a beautiful example of fine craftsmanship. From one to another - well done!

And the pics on your site are awesome - I am really looking forward to seeing the info on the 3 point hitch.! Just don't be looking at me to build a 6cyl Cub -- awesome !!!!!!

Regarding paint removal, I've had real good luck with the "purple stuff" degreaser you can buy by the 5 gal. bucket at most autoparts stores. I just dip small parts in it for 24-48 hrs and it'll take the paint completely off. I've also had good luck spraying it with a spray bottle or hand sprayer on a part followed by a blast from a plain water hose and getting 90% of the paint off. It's basically liquid lye so you gotta be careful with it. Will make you skin slippery and if you have a paper cut, it'll find it! :shock: Safety glasses are a must. I have heard of using lye as the electrolyte in electrolysis tanks and that it removed paint REAL well in addition to rust. Again you'd have to handle with care. Extreme care!

I gotta go ahead and rig my tank up, got some radiator shutters and planter parts for the Super A I want to "electrolysis-ize" I saw a big Rubbermaid tank at the feed store yesterday, I know it's really for watering horses but it would work nice to de-rust my rims..... :wink:

Al

I just can't help myself - I gotta build a small tank like the one Jim Becker posted just to see it work...

Ken

I think I'll go all out and build one like Rudi's. How much voltage is the limit? I don't want to blow myself up. :shock:

Rick, a 12 volt charger is more than adequate. Although I would imagine you could safely go higher, I'm not sure the trouble or expense would be justified.

Thanks Bigdog. I think I'll keep it at 12 volts and not try to speed things up with 220. :?

Rick, don't know if it's on Rudi's website or not, but I've seen a couple warnings not to use the compact eletronic regualted ones that are becoming popular now. It seems they don't last. I think most people have found the elcheapo Walmart type units hold up quite well.

Don't forget you use DC. That 220 scared me.

I used Electrolysis all last summer on my parts tractor.I even did a block with two stuck pistons in it.They loosened up after six days.If you have something with bolts in it,it will also loosen them.I use a 12 volt battery charger with two settings on it 12volt/2amps ans 12volt/6amps. Make sure you connect your leads up first.Set the charger 12volt at 6amps,then plug in you charger.The charge will drop to almost nothing after it!s work is done.You will be amazed. 8)

beaconlight":3k8xmru1 said:

Don't forget you use DC. That 220 scared me.

Click to expand...

Wonder if my 225 amp dc welder would speed things up a little? :shock:

I have had great fun with my tank. I recently scored a bigger charger (the kind that will start a car) and shifted to a bigger tank. The 'tank' was used to ship plastic and is like a big mouth 5 gallon tank, but about 20 gallons.

I just got done doing the front rims, it was very good for the rust, but again the well stuck paint was still stuck. I did find they would rust up pretty quickly (I only had dinner!) so very promptly wipe it down and grind off the paint and prime it.

Don't remember where I heard it, but the old charger had copper leads and I was always leery of getting them in the bath. The new ones look galvanized? I have some of those electrical 'clamp' connectors that I connect to the part and then the charger to that. I still try to keep it out of the water.

I found a quick wire brush of the rebar (anodes) help the process along.

Seems that most everything takes 2 days. Even the pins in the front axle. I should re-activate the 5 gallon bucket and old charger for doing the lug nuts other smaller parts.

It does seem wrong to pay for rebar.... guess I will have keep an eye out for free scraps from a job site.

I will NOT use my 'smart' charger.... that baby is reserved for the camper deep-cycle battery and vehicles.

Hi BillieandMillie,

I keep three/four vats going all the time. If a part has paint on it I just
leave it in the vat 48-72-84-96 hrs or maybe even a week, just depending
on how busy I am.

What I have taken to doing after removing from the vat is use a small
sandblaster. You can get them at Home Depot or Lowes for about $50.oo
and hold 30 lbs of blasting medium. You can also get smaller ones and
for hobby use they are great. I would recommend at least a 30 gal
tank and 2hp motor 2 stage compressor.

The part will be as clean as a new part. All paint, rust, crud, grease, etc
gone in a flash.

I notice that our local Walmart now carries the little siphon feed sandbalsters that have a tube you just stick down in a bag of sand for $20.

John - If you get one of these please post a review.

Did I understand correctly that if one left a part in an electo tank long enough that it WOULD remove paint?

ken

I've found electrolysis will quickly remove all but the most tightly held paint. If the paint looks loose, I've put the whole thing in the tank, particularly if it's a complex shape. But if the paint looks tight, I first try to strip off as much paint as possible, using oven cleaner, wire wheel, etc. After an hour or two in the tank, I usually pull the part out and if there are spots where the paint doesn't look like it going anywhere, I'll help out the process with a scraper or wire brush.

Getting off as much paint as possible simply reduces the amout of time the part has to stay in the tank. Same thing for degreasing. If good surface isn't exposed, you don't get efficient electrolysis. Scraping off grease and degreasing accelerates the process. I've found oven cleaner works well for both grease and certainly paint. Haven't had great luck with the green and purple degreasers, although in combination with pressure washer it is a start in stripping off the heavy stuff.

I just don't like the potential safeth implications of leaving the power supply on overnight and, after all electricity does cost something.

Also, after electrolysis the part is "electrochemically active", which means it will rust faster than before it was electrolyzed. You can't leave it the way it is, or a fine rust coating will begin overnight. I've found the phosphoric acid based metal cleaners passivate the surface. A coating of etch primer will then hold the part until I have enough parts done to get out the spray gun for priming/painting. This is the process I worked out last year, by trial and error (mostly error . . . ) on my first Cub project.

That was going to be my next question - What brand name / type primer would be good? Is there a better type for say an engine block that will get real hot vs say a sheet metal fender?
Ken

Ken:

Paul explained it quite nicely. But there is always a but. It has been my experience with the tanks that a couple interesting things seem to happen which I have yet to get a good explanation on.

A prime example is the front wheel rims. These puppies were in really sorry shape. Lots of rust, lots of loose paint and a fair amount of pretty tight paint. These ones I left in the tank for about 3 or 4 days - (mostly cause I got busy with something else and forgot about them). When I took them out of the tank, my son took the 4-1/2" grinder with a twisted wire cup and started cleaning them.

With very little time and effort - maybe 5 for an easy rim to 10 mins for a stubborn rim, he had all four cleaned up in very short order. No paint left on at all. What paint did not just fall off came off real quick with the brush. Needless to say, I also forgot to prime them. That was last May. They are still sitting in my shop, no primer and not a speck of rust on them.

Not sure why, but after they have been cleaned they did not rust as expected. Also, my two front axles show the same phenomenon, no rust. However, the two A battery boxes I left in the shop and forgot to prime do have a light coat of rust on them (new fabrications). Go figure.

The only reason I can see is possibly the concentration of TSP that I use. I do the finger check. I stick my hand in the solution (power off mind you) and rub my fingers together. If the solution feels a little soapy I guess you could call it, it is about right.

I start off with a 2KG package of TSP. After about 2 weeks I add another 1/4 kilo and maybe another 1/4 kilo after another 2-3 weeks. I seem to get to the saturation point then as any additional does not seem to affect how the tank works. Oh - I also top off the tank with fresh water as needed to make up for the process and secondary evaporation as well.

Oh - 2 kilo's is about 2.2 lbs to help in conversion.

Also, keep in mind that after about 12-24 hours the amperage output from your battery charger will reduce from say 6 amps to 1 amp. The reason for this is the electrodes has collected too much crud. I clean each electrode (re-bar) with the 4-1/2" angle grinder equipped with the twisted wire cup. I also clean the chain where it makes contact with the part being cleaned. Presto, amperage output is back up to 6 amps. Just something to keep in mind, helps the process go a little quicker.

I also clean the re-bar and chain in between parts getting dunked.

As for primer, you can use a rattle can type of cheap primer as a dust coat to keep the part from rusting. All other good primers require a hardener, so you have to have enough parts ready to use up a paint cup worth of primer. ( that is quite a few parts depending on size ).

After you have collected enough parts, then I have been using Dura Build red oxide as a base and then Dura Build Hi Build as the second coat. Gives a very nice base for the top coats of 2150. Also, the Dura Build red oxide is almost chip proof which I like.

Hope this helps some.