Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

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Postby gitractorman » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:50 am

Just a word of caution on the Fram or other automotive filters. I know that there have been some problems on Briggs and Kohler engines where people have used a cross referenced filter like a Fram of other automotive. One problem is that the physical size may be slightly different, and cause and oil overfill or under fill problem.

The second is that automotive filters typically have different flow through specs, because automotive oil pumps have much different flow characteristics than lawn/garden engines. Different flow through could starve the engine or caus oil pump problems on lawn/garden engines.

I'm not saying that you will have a problem, but after spending all of that money on a Honda engine, I would be very cautious and do some homework before just throwing a cross referenced oil filter on.

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Postby Fordlords » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:14 am

It is good to be cautious. With the Honda GX610/620's, the oil filter actually is an automotive filter, the same one as used on some Honda Civic cars. It is much bigger than the filter types used on Kohler and Briggs small engines. The Fram number I mentioned is the proper cross-reference to the stock Honda filter. Overfill on these engines is a definite no-no! I found that out the smoky way :P 1.5 quarts should get you where you want to be with oil and filter change on the Honda GX'es with the engine warm. Underfilling tends to happen when filling cold, as the filter holds a large volume of oil.

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Postby Snotzalot » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:00 am

What is the winter oil viscosity recommended for this engine?
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Oil Viscosity

Postby fraso » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:55 am

My Honda manual recommends:

above 50°F / 10°C - SAE 30
above 0°F / -15°C - SAE 10W30
below 30°F / 0°C - SAE 5W30

Oil is a major factor affecting performance and service life. Use 4-stroke automotive detergent oil.

SAE 10W30 is recommended for general use. Other viscosities shown on the chart may be used when the average termperature in your area is within the recommended range.

The SAE oil viscosity and service classification are in the API label on the oil container. Honda recommends that you use API SERVICE category SF or SG oil.

Regarding oil filters, many people feel that Fram filters are below the quality of Wix or Purolator. For more information about oil and filtration, visit Bob is the Oil Guy and the Engine Oil Filter Overview.
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Postby Fordlords » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:06 pm

We had a short mowing season this year due to the grass burning out early in the season- a rare thing in western New York. Luckily the engine picked up some utility hours late in the season using the sweeper and mulching. Hours are now at 62, and everything is still working great.

My engine was part of a temperature monitoring experiment on another forum comparing against Kohler Commands in new Cub Cadet GT2500 tractors vs. the application in the Cub 682. The Honda GX engines have one important factor that monitored significantly better than that of the Kohler Command, that being oil temperature, the GX engine oil runs much cooler than that of the Kohler Command, that even with the GX being in a more enclosed environment in the 682. Cooling air flow temperatures were slightly higher on the GX vs. the Kohler in the 2500's, but most important is the oil in the GX stays cool during high outside temperatures under full power.

Season 3 will see the 682 with the GX moving to a different piece of property, one a little bigger and more challenging. :D

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Postby Snotzalot » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:36 am

After one season I have no complaint's with my Honda transplant! I believe fuel consumption is a bit more.

I'm installing a 190-450 two stage thrower and hope to have it ready for this weekends noreaster!

How many hours are recommended for the oil change on this engine?
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Postby Fordlords » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:07 am

It has a good oil filtration system that I've been running the whole mowing season, about 30 hours a year in my case. I did an initial oil change at 10 hours.

Honda says to do the first oil change at 20 hours or after one month, then every six months or 100 hours of use thereafter.

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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Fordlords » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:10 pm

Nearing the end of season #3 shows 92 hours on the Honda engine, and only one thing to report. One 5 gallon container of gas I picked up this summer was E85 ethanol. On very hot days, this caused warm engine restart difficulty and poor running for a few minutes once the engine restarted. Instead of finding a way to dispose of the gas and figuring this ethanol stuff is going to be more and more popular, I did two things to correct the problem.

1. I relocated the fuel filter from the front of the engine above the fan shroud to a more remote location by the fuel pump. I then connected it to the carb with a piece of fuel line considerably thicker than the original one. This was to correct the "vapor lock" and air bubbling in the fuel filter and lines from the ethanol.

2. I switched from the original Bosch WR7DC plugs to a cooler running NGK BPR6ES. I believe the NGK 6 is now the OEM plug for the Honda engines.

These changes have made the engine start and run as well on E85 as regular 100% gasoline. Mechanically, nothing new to report, the engine still runs and functions perfectly. I switched to a Purolator L14459 oil filter after being convinced that Fram's are made somewhat cheaply, but didn't have any problems with the Frams. The engine uses no oil and it drains clean at the end of the seasons. The "pretreater" piece of foam in the air filter needs to be tapped clean after every use of the mower when cutting dry grass, sort of a pain but it's doing its job.

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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Snotzalot » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:33 am

Good suggestions!

Only problem I have had is fouling of the spark plugs. I had to R&R and sand blast to keep it running. I was running partial throttle (trying to keep fuel usage down) while working it hard and this may have caused the fouling. It wasn't oil fouling.
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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Snotzalot » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:52 am

I'm still having trouble with fouling of the spark plugs. I couldn't find NGK's in town so I put in two Champs. They started fouling in about 1/2 hour of use. So a carb adjustment may be required. Anyone know how to adjust the carb on these Honda GX610 engines.

Here is a link to an online copy of the shop manual for these engines:

http://www.honda-engines-eu.com/en/images/1000.pdf
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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Snotzalot » Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:33 pm

Reading about carb adjustments I understand the mixture screw is capped and not serviceable.

I'm beginning to think it might actually be a governor issue causing plug fouling.

Looking at the carb today, I noticed the screw shown. Any idea what this screw is for on this carb? It's not tight but has a limited adjustment of maybe 1/4 turn.

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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Fordlords » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:06 pm

I believe that is the capped mixture screw. I would check and make sure your air filter is clean, the pre-cleaner gets filled up fast. Before you suspect the carb or governor, I would try hotter plugs. Don't use Champions, they are horrible. Try the Bosch WR7DC or NGK BPR7ES. I've been running with my throttle backed down a bit without trouble, if anything that might make it run hotter. I've noticed Keihin's latest EPA compliant carbs aren't as good as the carbs they made in the past, they are sort of fussy, escecially about having clean and cool gas. Honda shoud just switch all their 18+ HP engines to EFI and be done with it, it's going to come down to that anyway.

Thanks for posting the link to the service manual, I printed one out for future reference :)

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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Snotzalot » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:12 am

You are correct the mixture screws are now capped and not serviceable. I drained my gas last week and added fresh. I had it out a bit yesterday and it seemed fine. Air filter and prefilter are clean. All I could find last week were champs so that went in, I am looking for NGK's locally and I will go with the hotter plug. My local cub dealer is listed as a Honda service center so I'm off to pick their brains later today and order the full service manual. I think I'm going to start the 30 day rotation, drain the tank, dump into the wife's car and refill with fresh gas.
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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Snotzalot » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:55 pm

I picked up NGK's BPR5ES, one number hotter, we'll see how it goes.

What octane is suggested for these engines?
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Re: Repowering a Cub Cadet 782 with a Honda Engine

Postby Fordlords » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:36 am

86 or higher.

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