Fuel line question

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Fuel line question

Postby FCUBMAN » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:18 pm

I am having a hard time getting the hood/tank back on properly after fixing the generator. The filter bowl hits the engine unless it (the filter bowl) is rotated to just the right position. Otherwise it leaks gasoline, and will probably break it sooner or later. If I turn the bowl to clear the engine, the gas line doesn’t line up without a lot of tension on it. The tank itself only fits in one position, so moving it rearward is out. I would like to use some gas-line hose to replace the existing copper tubing. Is there any reason I shouldn't do that? I would retain the copper tubing where it passes the exhaust pipe because of the heat. There is quite some stress on the existing tubing where it enters the carb, and those threads don't look all that great anyway, so I would like to relieve the stress on that, too. I would use the copper tubing with ferrule at each end, say for an inch or so, and clamp the gasoline tubing to each stub. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea? :?
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Postby Boss Hog » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:26 pm

Two short pieces of rubber line one at each end want hurt a thing.
You may want to put one of those plastic shut off valves next to the carb also, much easyer to get to to turn off.
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Postby FCUBMAN » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:44 pm

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't sure about the flexible line, but then it is used in cars and other equipment. The idea of the plastic shutoff next to the carb is a great idea! I like to shut off the gas when storing a gravity-fed machine inside a shed, mostly for safety reasons. I'll look for a valve while I'm getting the flexible line.
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Postby Donny M » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:46 pm

I would get rid off all the copper and make a safe steel fuel line that fits. Using copper is questionable at best and using rubber is a no no. You can make a steel fuel line quite easily using 5/16 brake line available at most auto parts stores.
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Re: Fuel line question

Postby Rudi » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:46 pm

Brian:

First, Image to the greatest forum on the internet, and to the Cub Family. You will find that all the folks on this forum are kind, helpful and just full of Cub info and knowledge. They also happen to be the finest folks I have ever met :!: :D

FCUBMAN wrote:I am having a hard time getting the hood/tank back on properly after fixing the generator. The filter bowl hits the engine unless it (the filter bowl) is rotated to just the right position. Otherwise it leaks gasoline, and will probably break it sooner or later. If I turn the bowl to clear the engine, the gas line doesn’t line up without a lot of tension on it. The tank itself only fits in one position, so moving it rearward is out. I would like to use some gas-line hose to replace the existing copper tubing. Is there any reason I shouldn't do that? I would retain the copper tubing where it passes the exhaust pipe because of the heat. There is quite some stress on the existing tubing where it enters the carb, and those threads don't look all that great anyway, so I would like to relieve the stress on that, too. I would use the copper tubing with ferrule at each end, say for an inch or so, and clamp the gasoline tubing to each stub. Anyone have any thoughts on that idea? :?
It is great having a resource like this - :D I'm hoping that I can offer some help to someone else one of these days...All input is greatly appreciated, and no electrons were harmed in the creation of this message. :wink:


Couple points:
    1. Replace your existing fuel supply line with a proper Steel Gas Line. You can see how to do this in George Willer's excellent How To Make a Steel Gas Line For Your Cub :!: :idea: :!: . Your idea of using ferrules is a good one, and in fact it is part of George's fix.
    2. Do not use a rubber gas line and get rid of the copper fuel line ASAP.... bad idea. Way too many Krispy Kubs out there because of using copper or rubber which have failed.
    3. Do Not use an in-line fuel filter... bad idea.. just gums up the works. Instead rebuild and make sure the Fuel Sediment Bowl is clean and re-assembled properly and mounted correctly on the tank. Also re-build if required, the IH 3/4" UpDraft Carb. Lurker Carl's Cub Carb Fixes is an excellent series of articles on how to do this :idea: :!:
    4. Plastic shut-offs next to the carb will work, but are not adviseable as they may overheat, melt and result in a Krispy Kub... :cry: :shock: :!:
    5. It took me a while to figure out how to get the Fuel Sediment Bowl Assembly to line up properly.. it is a matter of starting it correctly in the threads. This from my experience is something you just do until you get it right.
    6. Dave's thoughts on why to use the plastic shut-off is an oft repeated complaint.. it is hard on the fingers. If you are not restoring to mint and want a working tractor, I suggest you investigate the acquisition of the correct fittings to allow a ball valve to be used. You can use the Search function to search the archives for ball valves. I use one on Ellie-Mae and it works nifty.
    7. One of the reasons why the fuel inlet threads seem funky to you, is propably because the PO :?: did not understand that those threads are 1/2-20 and not 3/8"NPT. Common error. Again use the Search function to search the archives for threads on Inlet Thread Repair.

I hope some of this is helpful. Keep us posted on how you make out, and yup.. already doing that.. :!: :!: :!: contributing that is :!: :idea: :wink: :D

Ok, so here is the spiel Image:

I would suggest that you read this thread: New Members and Visitors, Please READ Prior to Posting. There are many great links to informative pages such as the ATIS FAQ's 1 and ATIS FAQ's 2, The Best of H.L. Chauvin who has written very interesting articles on troubleshooting common problems with your Cub.

Also, you might want to visit the Cub Manual Server as there is tons of info on servicing, maintaining and re-building your Cub. In addition to this basic information, there are also a number of other useful tools available on the server. There is the Specialty Services page which has contact info for neat stuff like getting your seats recovered, buying quality Decals, Serial Number tags and a host of other neat items. Also there are the Parts Pages - both Used Parts Suppliers and New Parts Suppliers pages with links to quality dealers. I am always looking for YOUR favourite dealers for New and Used Parts to include here. These pages are intended to complement our Official FarmallCub.com Website Sponsors:

I would also recommend that you visit Binder Books and purchase the three most important manuals you can own for Maintenance, Repair and Rebuilding your Cub. These are the Owner's Manual, the GSS-1411 Service Manual and the TC-37F Parts Manual. Although they are available on the Cub Manual Server, it is better is you also have your own paper copy. Binder Books is the only Authorized IH Publication Reprint House and they have the best quality manuals available. Most other's are not of the same quality. Just a personal thought here, the I&T Shop Manuals, although helpful in some areas, really are not sufficient for the job. If you wish though, they are good additional reference works.

IF you really want to get the skinny on all things Cub, might I suggest you get a copy of Ken Updike's Farmall Cub and Cub Cadet's :?: . While you are at it Original Farmall Cub and Cub Cadet is Ken's latest addition to the series. Along with Guy Fay's Letter Series Originality Guide, these are three must have's in anyone's collection.

In addition to the above information, don't forget to check out the various articles that are available to help with your Repair, Restore, Rebuild or just your Maintenance Projects. There are a number of sub pages such as Electrolysis or Rust Zapper's, Maintenance Tips, Jigs and Techniques, Implement and Part Sketches and of course the Paint, Decals & Other Finish Questions which has the Paint Chart and the Paint Committee Decisions links.

Oh, and while the program still lasts.. you might want to check the Announcement: Navistar Free Gas Cap Offer - On-Line Form thread at the top of the Cub Forum and send away for the new style safety cap before that program runs out as well.

I truly hope that you enjoy your Cub and that you will be a frequent contributor to the forum. Again, Image to the Cub FamilyImage :D
Last edited by Rudi on Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby FCUBMAN » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:06 am

Thanks for getting back to me. I am quite concerned with safety, especially since our volunteer fire department is quite a ways from here, at the bottom of our 1000 foot “mountain” By the time they got here, they might as well go home – there’d be nothing left... :cry:
I will keep all this in mind when I next go out to survey the problem. I like the ball valve idea, but getting the parts could be a challenge, but a worthwhile one. I am wondering if a 360 degree loop in the tubing would relieve the stress at the ends, and make it easier to attach. I read the article on making a steel gas line, it will get me started. I can get the 5/16 line locally. It won’t look original, but I am all for genuine improvements, and this isn’t a show tractor. I’ll have to see if it’s practical. I may go to a motorcycle dealer and see what they have for shutoffs. My motorsickle has a vacuum operated shutoff, which isn’t concerned with voltage at all. Flow rate could be a problem, as well as expense. Anything for a bike is too expensive, but it sounds like a good idea. I'll keep you posted.
Trying to avoid a Krispy Kub,
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Postby 'Country' Elliott » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:59 am

Hey Brian...WELCOME ! :D

I'd like to STRONGLY URGE you (on the issue of SAFETY) to take Donny's advise and construct your gas line from either STEEL or FUEL-SAFE NEOPRENE.

Mine is NEOPRENE (due to my newer Zenith Carbuerator) and I've had NO LEAKS, NO DRIPS, NO ERRORS ! But STEEL would be the better option for SAFETY and look more authentic :wink:
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Postby rustynuts » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:04 am

I solved my hose problem of it dripping every now and then with a coupla fittings and a braided hose I once used on a custom harley I built.Image
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:15 am

I guess it is time to stir something up and ask a question I have been wondering about. Have all the people who sya you shouldn't use rubber lines on a tractor replaced all the ones on thir cars and trucks with steel?
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Postby Rudi » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:58 am

Brian:

The steel gas line is ORIGINAL equipment on the Cub.. tht is why we keep saying that we should all use it as it the right thing to do.

The loop I don't think is going to reduce anything, but if you make the steel gas line as per George's directions, there will be no stress on the line at either connection as long long as you thread it into the inlets properly.

The ball valve is really quite simple and I can probably find the part numbers, but what I did what essentially take my fuel sediment bowl assembly with me to my local fittings house - Fairview Fittings - and we did it all up right there.. presto pop.. all done.. I think it cost me 4-5 bucks Cdn or some foolish thing like that.
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Postby George Willer » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:04 am

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:I guess it is time to stir something up and ask a question I have been wondering about. Have all the people who sya you shouldn't use rubber lines on a tractor replaced all the ones on thir cars and trucks with steel?


Only the ones beneath the gas tank that frequently slosh fuel out and that are filled from hand held containers, and near the exhaust manifold. :shock: Those are the ones that could cause a very small fire to become a very big one! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Keep in mind also that the rubber or copper lines are not as originally manufactured and may even void the warranty. :evil: :twisted: :shock:
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Postby Ron Luebke » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:58 am

i replaced the old copper line my granddad had on his old cub with a new steel one made @ the stonethrow cubfest and it just looks cleaner and adds detail to the fuel system.
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Postby Buzzard Wing » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:49 pm

Nice thing about a Cub is that pretty much everything is reasonable $$ compared to most other stuff with engines. The original parts are quality and can be made to work with little effort. If the shutoff on the bowl doesn't work it probably just needs to be cleaned up. The only trouble with that is you gotta take the hood off to do it.

The steel fuel line and ferrules is less than $5. A friend made the one for my 71 but I did the line for the 50. A bit tricky to bend with an underslung exhaust, but TM sells them for about $15. They are great to deal with and only sell the best stuff for Cubs.

I shut off everything with gravity feed too.... a good practice.

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Postby TomBolton » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:23 pm

A trick ya'll probably know to help prevent cross threading, as can easily happen when connecting the fuel line to the sediment bowl. While pushing the fitting against the bowl turn it counter clockwise (the wrong way) until you feel the threads click. At that point the threads are meshed to engage correctly, and you start turning clockwise (the right way). Just a trick my dad taught me years ago, for what it's worth. Likewise, always start tricky threading situations by hand, until you get a few turns, then use a tool as needed. Not likely to cross thread anything by hand. Sorry if I'm restating the obvious.
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Postby George Willer » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:36 pm

TomBolton wrote:A trick ya'll probably know to help prevent cross threading, as can easily happen when connecting the fuel line to the sediment bowl. While pushing the fitting against the bowl turn it counter clockwise (the wrong way) until you feel the threads click. At that point the threads are meshed to engage correctly, and you start turning clockwise (the right way). Just a trick my dad taught me years ago, for what it's worth. Likewise, always start tricky threading situations by hand, until you get a few turns, then use a tool as needed. Not likely to cross thread anything by hand. Sorry if I'm restating the obvious.


Tom,

Your suggestion may not always be obvious to many and you are correct, so it bears repeating. Thanks for your post.

One frequent problem with fuel lines that aren't bent properly is that they don't even turn by hand because of binding close to the fitting so your method won't work. That's why we've posted the method of forming the line so the it remains straight at the ends to eliminate that binding.
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