Cub Competition?

[PKS]

Having recently acquired a '56 Cub Lo-Boy as well as perusing the Cub forum, I am curious as to the market place competition during the time of its manufacture especially early on. What other small "farm" tractors similar in size, weight and function competed either directly or indirectly with the Cub? The Cub had to have been a clear winner considering its longevity or was it a niche product?

Paul

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

comparable in size were the JD LA, Massey Pony, and Allis model G.

[Bob McCarty]

The ones that I am familiar with and have about the same horsepower would be: Massey Harris Pony, Allis Chalmers G, John Deere L and LA, and then probably a host of lesser know brands and lower production numbers.

Bob

[PKS]

Did those models from JD, MH, AC and others compete directly with the Cub? Did they fair as well in the "fields"? I have no idea what kind of production years those other models had.

[Rudi]

Paul:

The Massey-Harris Pony (oh, Massey-Harris evolved into Massey-Ferguson) probably would have come close tro being direct competition if it had ever been produced in the numbers that the Cub had. However, one of the drawbacks to my mind is that for it's HP which is somewhat comparable to a Cub, it was larger than a Cub.

I have seen several, and a friend of mine owns one (he was Jethro's PO as well), and I have several implements of his stored here. I really don't much like it nor the implements such as the plows.

Another neighbour has a Pony, a Cub (used to have 3) and 2 Allis G's. Now the Allis G is something that I might go for.. Very significant tractor design, and a beauty to boot. I think the G was the one tractor that IH felt the Cub would compete with and did quite well at.

I am not all that familiar with JD's and not much of a fan,.. so basically no opinion on them critters

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

JD model L and LA were comparable size and hp wise to a cub, but power to implements was a problem. so far as I know, the only drive for implements was a pulley and belt system on the drive shaft. to change belts either due to wear, or for a different implement, the drive shaft had to be removed.

[johnbron]

I have a 1944 [JD LA] and that thing is a fun little tractor to operate. That little 2-banger just grunts and bears down when meeting a hard pull situation. The only thing I hate about it is getting and off the tractor. The only way on is climbing over the rear axle. That is why most of them dont have serial# tags no-mo cause the tags are on the axle housing and get torn off from peoples feet while mounting & dismounting.

[PKS]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the tractor history lesson. Would the Ford N series have been a competitior or was that tractor much larger in size and capability? I have only seen pictures.

John:

You own a JD LA and I would imagine other members of the Cub Forum own different models as well.

I would wonder what percentage of forum members own, operate and collect other models in addition to the Cub?

Rudi:

I know you had mentioned to me the other evening that this ("Cub") forum and its content is the most complete and comprehensive access to information out there with respect to a particular tractor model. I am glad I own a Cub.

If I had the time and $$ to add additional machines, beyond first acquiring a standard Cub, it might be fun to acquire other small "farm" tractors. Someday

Paul

[Patbretagne]

I suppose that the little grey Ferguson comes into the Cub range but somewhat differently, I believe that Ford made the same tractor before Ferguson started real production. Was it the Ford N?

We have a lot of "fergies" in Europe and a lot were exported to Australia, I used to have one but lost interest for some reason or another.

The "System Ferguson" was the turning point after which the modern tractor started it's climb to today's monsters. Yes is was simply the three point linkage with draft control that old Henry invented. There was a history of patent with Ford at some time.

As to the list of other tractors that some Cub owners have, here is Noëlle and my list.

Fordson E27N, Allis Chalmers B, Renault D30, Renault YL vinyard of 1936, Lanz 5506, Lanz John Deere 2816, Farmall Cub Français with plough, finger mower and mid mounted cultivator, Farmall Cub SUPER, Société Française Vierzon 201 being restored, Société FRançaise Vierzon 201, Fendt D25 (engine MWM), Fahr D15 engine Guldner water cooled, Threshing machine Merlin n°5, Baler Stationery Rivierre Casalis, Stationery engine, Kent de Nantes (Perkins de 193? semi diesel 12CV vertical, stationery engine Lister A 5CV, Stationery Engine Fairbanks Morse 6cv, Stationery Engine Essensuel, Grain Mill, Binder reaper, Sunshine de Massey Harris, Plough Mc Cormick 2 bottoms 30/25cm « Pick Up », Potato Planter Mc Cormick, Threshing machine Braud 193?……

If you want to know more, let us know I am always happy to chat on about 'things'
Pat

[Paul B]

The Avery model "V" was also a Cub size tractor, built by B.F. Avery. Like the Farmall Cub, it also was built in Louisville, KY, from 1946 until either 1952 or 1955 (there is some question as to when production ended). B.F. Avery was bought by Minneapolis Moline in 1951 and some models of the Avery tractors continued to be built in Louisville with the Minne Mo name (V until 52 or 55. BF until 53, BG until 55) until the plant closed in 1955. Some collectors seem to think the BG was assembled from parts at another location until 1957, after the Louisville plant closed.

[john2189]

Hi Pat, you have a very nice page. Nice to see other tractors from another country.. I liked the Lanz bulldog. what are some of the ages of these tractors ?

[George Willer]

The Avery model "V" was also a Cub size tractor, built by B.F. Avery. Like the Farmall Cub, it also was built in Louisville, KY, from 1946 until either 1952 or 1955 (there is some question as to when production ended). B.F. Avery was bought by Minneapolis Moline in 1951 and some models of the Avery tractors continued to be built in Louisville with the Minne Mo name (V until 52 or 55. BF until 53, BG until 55) until the plant closed in 1955. Some collectors seem to think the BG was assembled from parts at another location until 1957, after the Louisville plant closed.

Paul,

I'm sure you know the Avery V had a forerunner built in Cleveland, OH as the Cletrac (Cleveland Tractor Co.) "General" in the late thirties and then as the Wards twin row. I'm not sure of this, but I think it was built somewhere in Tennessee before finally ending up in Louisville as the B.F. Avery model V. They are all basically the same Hercules powered tractor, with only minor changes over time.

In any case, they were Cub sized competitors for the Cub before there was a Cub.

[Paul B]

George
According to the information in the book B.F.Avery, B.F.Avery & Sons, Pioneer Plowmakers, by Luther D. Thomas, the Cletrac General GG became the Avery model "A". Supposedly it's design was commissioned by Avery to have a tractor that would incorporate Avery's "Tru-Draft" line of attached implements, and then Avery commissioned the Cletrac people to build and market the tractor, the only wheeled tractor Cletrac ever built. Production began in 1939 and when World War II came along, Cletrac 's priorities shifted, and on February 14, 1942, Avery announced it had bought the equipment, dies, inventory, rights etc., in order to build the tractor at it's plant in Louisville. It originally used a 113ci Hercules IXA-3 engine, was changed to 123ci IXK-3 in 1943, and to the 133ci IXB-3 in 1946. It was 118" long, 64" -85" wide, 55" high to the top of the radiator, and a shipping weight of 2280 lbs.

The Avery "V" was a smaller tractor and used a Hercules ZXB-3 engine of 65ci, and was rated at 9 hp. It was 105" long, 51" wide, 51-1/2" to top of radiator, and a shipping weight of 1612 lbs.

[Patbretagne]

Hi Pat, you have a very nice page. Nice to see other tractors from another country.. I liked the Lanz bulldog. what are some of the ages of these tractors ?

A very good point, ages for people who do not know the tractor is important, I had not thought of that.

Thanks for the complement, the Lanz has come on leaps and bounds since the photos there. In fact it is time that we got down to updating the site, streamlining it a little, the lettings pages didn't come off this year, we will drop them now.

In effect the ages of the tractors start at 1936 with the Reneault vinyard tractor which is less than a yard wide, to 1958 for the Fendt, Renault D30 and the Lanz John Deere.

Pat

[Bill E Bob]

I'm not sure, but I wouldn't consider the John Deere L/LA as "direct"
competition for the CUB as I believe the last year of production for the L/LA
was 1947 and the Cub was introduced in 1947. MAYBE JD saw
the handwriting on the wall!!

Bill