Potential New Job - THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT!!

[gitractorman]

As many of you know, I am a project manager for a large environmental consulting firm, and travel a bit for my job. I've been with the company for almost 10 years, and I'm 19 years into my career, so I have become a bit of a "resource" in my specialty. Over the past several years I have been butting heads a bit with my company management philosophy which in my mind promotes people to expend a lot of time in order to fulfill their billable ratio, which happens to be the only merit that our company seems to care about. I also have been dangled the carrot of "Associate" if "you just get your billability up a bit". However, since I'm regarded as a resource, I tend to do a lot of business development which equates to non-billable time, thus impacting my billable ratio. In the end, it has been counter productive for my advancement in the company, and I've been passed up several times now for promotion. So after 10 years at the company, I still have the same job as the day I started.

In the late summer/fall of last year I had decided to buck up, put in a few more hours, and really try to push for a promotion, and not complain (too much).

In November/December, a client approached me and asked if I would be interested in moving to another firm, a compeditor, whith whom I have worked with on projects for this same client. I had given up looking around, but I told him I would at least sit and talk to hear what they have to say. We've had several very nice meetings, and I have had the opportunity to meet the highest level owner's of the company, all of whom were very nice and glad to be talking to me.

The company has now offered me a position that seems a bit amazing. They would like for me to open an office for them here in Buffalo (so I don't have to move) and come on board as manager of their Air Resources division. I will be next in line for an associate partnership, and the salary is about 20% more than I'm making currently. They even increased their offer after I realized that their health care costs were nearly double what I'm paying now. Less travel, work from home until we can open an office, flexible hours, reimbursement for all my travel (weekly visit to their main office about 150 miles away), and basically free reign to do what I can for them.

My delimma. I have some loyalty to the company I work for. I have been here for 10 years, and have built a good business for them, but I am at a crossroads in my career and do not see much room for advancement here. I have lots of resources, and I do not have a "bad" job, I just have some issues with the overall management philosophies and particular managers I deal with.

I know its an excellent situation to be in, and I do not want to sound like I am complaining. I am not! I am very fortunate to be where I am, especially in today's economy.

I definitely value all of your opinions and would love to hear your thoughts. I'm probably going to make a decision tonight or tomorrow just because I don't like to keep anyone hanging.

Thanks in advance!
Bill

[Bill Hudson]

Bill,

My only observation is that if going to work in the morning is an effort, it is not worth it.

Bill

[Barnyard]

Bill, changing jobs is always a hard decision no matter if it is after a few months or many years. You have been with your present employer 10 years with no advancement in sight. That means something too. I'm sure there is more to the story that we do not need to know, and we can not see it from your prospective. A tough decision on your part for sure if you have built a good working relationship with the present employer. But, life has to be looked at in the future also. If you want more out of life and your job, and I'm sure you do, and you are comfortable with the folks in the new company, then it may well be time to move on.

Regardless of your decision, I wish you well!

[Charles (49) Mo]

Sounds to me that a move is in order if the company looks stable.

[Don McCombs]

Bill,

Several thoughts and observations, in no particular order or priority...

* If your current employer truly feels that you are a valuable resource to their operations, a subtle leak that you are out there looking could produce some of the advancement and improvements that you seek. It could also backfire.

* In tough economic times, the last to arrive is quite often the first to go.

* Starting up a new business operation in a market with an established and successful competitor is a tough proposition, especially in today's economy.

I'm sure that you have thought about these things and more in your deliberations. I wish you the best of luck with whatever decision you make.

[VinceD]

Bill, I understand how you feel and your loyalty to your present company. My only observation would be to ask yourself if your present company has that same loyalty to you?

Decisions like that are never easy. I'm sure you will decide based on what is best for you and your family. Good luck regardless of which way you go.

[Rudi]

Bill:

If you get up in the morning and can't wait to get to work, then you probably have the best job on the planet. If however, there are issues both in personal satisfaction as well as professional advancement and it feels most days that it is a drag to get to work, then you are probably in the wrong employment slot.

To my mind, if a competitor is seeking you out.. and is offering what your current employer really should be providing after a decade of loyal service, then maybe it is time to consider the competitor's offer. If you are not appreciated at work (the main scale of measurement would be salary/benefit package as well as respect) then it is probably time to consider the offer.

[Jim Becker]

Vince asked you the question: "My only observation would be to ask yourself if your present company has that same loyalty to you?"
I think you already answered it. It appears to me that they are giving you a standard to be measured by then use your talents in a way that makes it hard to perform to that standard.

I also have been dangled the carrot of "Associate" if "you just get your billability up a bit".
. . .
However, since I'm regarded as a resource, I tend to do a lot of business development which equates to non-billable time, thus impacting my billable ratio.

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

I was in a similar position many years ago, except I really liked the person I was working for, however, a chance for improvement has to given very serious consideration. You have loyalty to people, such as fellow employees, supervisors, etc. A company is a piece of paper they drew up because they could make more money that way than as an individual. How do you have loyalty to a piece of paper?

[beaconlight]

Bill I won't try to advise you, yet i have a little story for you.
My brother Rich Graduated from college in the 60's. He was student Commander of the ROTC. Rich took an Engineers job with NY Tel(now Verizon). Uncle Sam waved his finger,Rich said I want Jump School OK he also said I want Ranger School OK. His butt was in Viet Nam as Quick as can be. He came back to a Supervisors job at the tel Co. They were in deep Do Do in NYC. One night a VP said you have to come to a meeting tonight. Rich said I can't for I was hired under a program where by I have to have a Masters by a certain date, A cut tonight will give me an automatic fail. He was told "You don't need any more school for the job you have" Rich responded " Then i guess I don't need the job" He had a wife and 2 kids at the time. Rich finished his Masters and his PHD. He went to work as a College Professor. For the last 20 years he has been Dean of the Business College at Virginia Tech. Rich is on the board of directors of a number of companies and past chairman of the group that certifies Business Schools. There is much more to the story. Yet it was the first step that led to the rest

[John(videodoc)]

The saying, "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" doesnt exsist for a no reason. I am not saying , dont pursue. I am saying becareful and check out your option thoroughy. I have a standing offer to go to a competitor. However they are not financially as stable (no where near as a matter of fact) as my current employer. Even though they pay 25% more, i am not willing to make the jump, and lose 12 yrs and my line as i am am next in line to be manager for my facility. A while back i had the chance to jump over to the VA Hospital. Initially i was upset that i didnt get the job, as it ment a significant pay increase and the oppurtunity to work with vets. But a few days later, i felt relieved, i didnt get it, as i am very comfortable where i am at. i know the system, come and go as i please, dress as i please. lots of intangible benefits......

[magnumpi]

Everything said above is very constructive and helpful. I'll assume (I know) that you don't have a non-compete staring you in the face so that's not an issue, correct ??? Your present employer has given you 10 years with which to assess your compatibility and it's obvious from what you say that their philosophy and yours are on different paths. Did you clarify this with the future employer ??? Now's the time to ask the tough questions as it's much easier to get another job when you're currently employed. I do disagree with the premise of hinting to your current bosses that you might be looking elsewhere as that givens them an excellent reason to terminate you. Billable hours is a key issue for you and it appears cast in granite with the current employer; thus, I would definitely consider this move. As has been said, if "stuff" happens, they won't hesitate to fire or lay you off !! It's the way of today's World unfortunately. If this were a lateral move, I'd say don't but it's clearly an advancement in several ways so personally I'd take the opportunity. A contract is also in order and try to avoid signing a non-compete (no idea what NY's rules are re them) One thing I have learned is nothing gets easier as I age so the time is now. You don't want to look back and have regrets IMO. Don't sell yourself short - it appears these folks really want your services so hopefully you can make a deal - remember their first offer to you was made knowing it would not be their final offer !!! THEY CLEARLY WANT YOU !!!! Best wishes, you're in an enviable position. Craig

[gitractorman]

Well, I spent a lot of yesterday just talking to friends at work. Not talking about my pending job change, but tolking to get their feelings. I quickly realized one common thing.... everyone had the same dislike or frustration with the company and exuded a similar negative attitude. Now, I know that this may be true of any work place, but it falls in line with my overall feelings, and really reinforced my decision.

This morning I both accepted my new job offer, and submitted my resignation.

It has been one of the toughest decisions I have ever made, however I am confident that it was the right choice.

Thank you to everyone for your valued input. There are more years of experience in these few replies, than any one person could ever aquire. That is one of the great things about this forum, and another is the continued support of everyone regardless of the situation.

My deepest thanks to everyone, and I will definitely be keeping folks updated!
Bill

[Mr E]

Bill,
Best of luck to you in your new job. I had to make a similar decision many years ago. It is very difficult to get out of your "comfort zone" even though you are unhappy. Although my move turned out to be a mistake, it was still the best thing for me in the long run. I had always been very interested in computers and technology. The few years my new employer survived before going under allowed my to get involved in my area of interest. Which eventually led to my current job. I have been very happy with my new career and enjoy going to work every morning. (or at least MOST mornings.)

Roy

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

Beaconlight, GTE/Verizon owned our local phone company, and they were probably the worst company I ever saw, both for the way they treated employees, and the service they gave customers.

GI tractorman, I think you have made the right decision, When everyone is unhappy with a company something is wrong. There is always someone who is unhappy, but when it is everyone there is a problem. Your happiness and peace of mind makes a big difference.