Apple Pie, Chevrolet and the USA

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Apple Pie, Chevrolet and the USA

Postby JackF » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:15 am

“Apple Pie, Chevrolet and the USA”, :x “YA RIGHT”
The other day, I was finishing a customers issue on a 05 Chevy Monte Carlo when putting the wheel back on, I saw this.


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Postby johnbron » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:43 am

That is sickening aint it?. All the crap that we are forced to buy from China with no other choice of parts makers. I am glad I am old enough to remember the Great days/years of good`ol U.S.A. engineering & manufacturing. :o
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:44 am

I seriously doubt there is a vehicle manufactured that is 100% USA.
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Postby Rudi » Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:07 am

Was watching Lou Dobbs the other night with Kitty Pilgrim. I was amazed and kinda apprehensive when Christine Romans was presenting her report on the Big 3 and their expansion plans for the next few years.

As China has the worlds largest population, it by definition has the worlds largest customer base and is working very hard to modernize and improve its economic base.

A lot of this is being assisted by Ford, GM and Chrysler who are either in the process of building more plants in China or have plans to do so within the next couple of years. They have also invested heavily into aftermarket manufacturing and primary first source manufacturing facilities within China.

I fear that the Auto industry in both Canada and the US is going to be in for some major revamping over the next 25 years. It will not be the same as it has been.

The worlds larges Auto Pact between Canada and the US, is about to be overwhelmed by the less than $2.00/hour workforce of China.

China is now where North America was right after WW-2. An economic explosion is happening and we had better become used to the new realities.

$2.00/hour in China
$38.00/hour in the US and Canada
$50.00/hour in Germany

BIG DIFFERNCE in employee costs, never mind benefits.
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:18 am

One word of note on your numbers Rudi, the 38/hour in US you posted is a loaded number, it includes unemployment social security, benefits , etc. not just wages. companies like to throw those big numbers out to make it look like employees are getting rich.
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Postby George Willer » Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:22 am

John *.?-!.* cub owner wrote:One word of note on your numbers Rudi, the 38/hour in US you posted is a loaded number, it includes unemployment social security, benefits , etc. not just wages. companies like to throw those big numbers out to make it look like employees are getting rich.


Those are costs that must be paid for the employee's benefit, not donations. They represent the true wages.
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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:11 pm

Agreed, but the way companies state it when they post the numbers it makes people that aren't familar with it think that is the cash they hand employees. when in truth the paycheck for an employee is 1/2 to 2/3 of that.
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Postby JackF » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:05 pm

I fear that the Auto industry in both Canada and the US is going to be in for some major revamping over the next 25 years. It will not be the same as it has been.


I was sent to Chicago for G.M. training a couple of weeks ago and some G.M.management people were there. They said; Toyota wants to buy G.M. for the price its worth without the contracts with the UAW, white collar workers retirement, health benefits,ect. Toyota wants to expand to China, Pontiac name tag is history and Ford is going to be the only American car manufacture.


Those are costs that must be paid for the employee's benefit, not donations. They represent the true wages.


G.M. management said if costs do not get under control with in five years G.M. would be forced to take drastic action including bankruptcy.
G.M. said the average Canadian / U.S. worker hourly wage was $25.00 per hour, but (true wages) paid employee health, retirement ect.added another $2,800 per car.

A lot of this is being assisted by Ford, GM and Chrysler who are either in the process of building more plants in China or have plans to do so within the next couple of years. They have also invested heavily into aftermarket manufacturing and primary first source manufacturing facilities within China.


The instructor I had for training in Chicago was an instructor for G.M. in Canada and the U.S. He also is an instructor for Ford outside the Canada / U.S. borders.
He said it’s about a quarter of the cost for building automobiles and automobile parts in China.
He also stated when in China the students and workers are very courteous, dependable and above all good learners. They want be in class. In Canada / U.S students read newspapers and care less about being in class.

BIG DIFFERNCE in employee costs, never mind benefits.


What ever the differences are we (Canadians and Americans) are going to have to compete with them, but how it’s going to happen, it’s going to take someone with a little more smarts than me.

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Postby John Niekamp » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:08 am

Well as a current G.M. vehicles owner, (2 antique, 2 modern) I see the newer they are the, cheaper quality they are too.

I have owned G.M. for the past 23 years and I have bought my LAST G.M. car, truck, van or anything made by G.M. I am really displeased with their quality. There was a time that I would own nothing but a Chevy, not the case any longer. I have seen G.M. go downhill for the past 10 years. They mass produce vehicles, reguardless of quality and charge big dollars. You may want to place that blame on China's cheap labor rate, I don't, I blame it on corporate greed.

If the cheaper labor rate of China is true, then why is it the prices on these new vehicles going up and up and up, where as other items made in China, shipped to and sold in the US going down, way down?

Here's an example: for the heck of it, (I doubt if I would consider another GM product) I have just priced a new 2005 Silverado, with almost the same package that I have now on my 2000 Silverado that I paid $24,269 in 2000 and that same truck, with the same options would now cost me MSRP $ 33,985.00 only 5 years later. AND with all the GM plants closed down in the the US and moved to China for their cheaper labor rates, What's that almost $10,000 increase of cost for? when they are getting a cheaper labor rate in China.....shipping back to the US? Exactly how much of the car/truck is made in China these days?

Second example: About 4 years ago I bought a new DVD player, it cost me around 200 bucks, (Emerson) I saw a new one at Wal-Mart the other day (Sanyo?? made in China) for 49 bucks. Is it not still the same cheaper labor rate that is working for GM?

I must not be understanding this concept here, why is it that one type of product coming from China is going down in price where other products from China is going up......I say it's CORPORATE GREED!

DARN and Toyota was in the running to be my next vehicle.

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Postby johnbron » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:23 am

Quote:, I must not be understanding this concept here, why is it that one type of product coming from China is going down in price where other products from China is going up......I say it's CORPORATE GREED!
John Niekamp


I totally agree with that statement.
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Postby Harold R » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:28 am

I'm afraid the Jennie is out of the bottle. The US is becoming what many experts said it would 30 years ago. Nothing but a service economy.
Wal-Mart thrives. :(
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Postby Harold R » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:37 am

Quote:, I must not be understanding this concept here, why is it that one type of product coming from China is going down in price where other products from China is going up.


Supply and Demand. DVD's are not new any more, most everyone has one by now. The market has probably ebbed a bit. But, the market for a fuel efficient Toyota, Honda, and what ever the brand name of that new Chinese car targeted for the US, is at an all time high.
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Postby ljw » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:59 am

We all have to realize that it is a global economy now more than ever. Things are are changing and will not stop changing. Like it or not, we must keep up with the changes or stagnate. China is a very dynamic economic force now and will be for many years to come. If the Chinese government allows their workers to share in the wealth, we will be able to increase our market by selling to the Chinese, which over a quarter of the worlds population. China is currently purchasing the latest technology from the western countries and, if not now, but in the near future, their quality will be second to none. I remember the "good ol days" because I had the privledge to grow up in the 50's and 60's. Hopefully for the young people this is their good ol days. I know it sounds hard, but people have to get away from blaming someone else for their problems. People can't take advantage of you unless you let them! It sounds simplistic, but true reform starts at home. We are taking common sense away from our people. Instead of teaching kids not to pet strange dogs, the dogs must be dealt with. Instead of teaching kids in the school about our history and current events, teachers seem to be OK with allowing kids to be of the opinion that Sept. 11th was the fault of the people in the Trade Center!
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Postby George Willer » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:08 am

If corporate greed is as rampant as some claim, there's a simple solution. Almost without exception their shares of stock are for sale on the open market. Tip: If the corporations are really making exhorbitant profits, just buy some their stock and jump on the bandwagon! :lol:
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Apple...

Postby lonniebug57 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:03 am

Good point,George.....except salaries, bonuses going to the few at the top guarantee little or no return on investment. By the way, I really enjoy your Cub posts. They have helped me a lot. Keep up the good work!
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