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Low Ash Engine Oil
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- Cub Star
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:52 pm
- Zip Code: 57523
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Farmall Cub
Copar Panzer t65 year ?
1948 Farmall H
Buckskin Farmall H
Farmall MD w belly mounted ih sickle mower
Farmall super MD-TA
Farmall 400 Diesel
Farmall 450 Diesel - Location: South Eastern SD
Low Ash Engine Oil
I was wondering why people say that if you don't use low ash engine oil that you will develop valve problems? How does it affect the valves by using a different engine oil? Can I get by by using a zinc additive? I have used HK engine oil in all my tractors with a zinc additive. Also I looked up what low ash engine oil means and didn't get a very clear answer. Could someone explain that to me too? If I am supposed to be using low ash engine oil, where can I get it from and what problems can be developed by not using low ash oil?
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- Team Cub Mentor
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Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
Wow?
Opinion. The folks advertising a products benefits are the ones selling it.
No low ash oil or zinc additive needed. I use a multiple weight engine oil. If the engine oil is good enough for my cars, it's great for my 70 year old tractors.
Opinion. The folks advertising a products benefits are the ones selling it.
No low ash oil or zinc additive needed. I use a multiple weight engine oil. If the engine oil is good enough for my cars, it's great for my 70 year old tractors.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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- 5+ Years
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1951 Super C
1966 IH 504 Hi-Clear
1968 JD 3020
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1949 Ford 8N
1955 Ferguson TO-35 - Location: Branford, CT
Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
Rotella T4 used in all 7 of mine
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- Cub Star
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:52 pm
- Zip Code: 57523
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Farmall Cub
Copar Panzer t65 year ?
1948 Farmall H
Buckskin Farmall H
Farmall MD w belly mounted ih sickle mower
Farmall super MD-TA
Farmall 400 Diesel
Farmall 450 Diesel - Location: South Eastern SD
Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
So is there any "bad oils" that people have run in there tractors and made mistakes with?
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- 10+ Years
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1952 Cub
1942 Farmall H - Location: Raymond, MS
Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
What tractors are we talking? Diesel? Far as I can tell it may be useful in heavy duty diesel engines.
Thomas
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- Cub Star
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:52 pm
- Zip Code: 57523
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Farmall Cub
Copar Panzer t65 year ?
1948 Farmall H
Buckskin Farmall H
Farmall MD w belly mounted ih sickle mower
Farmall super MD-TA
Farmall 400 Diesel
Farmall 450 Diesel - Location: South Eastern SD
Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
Regular Farmall gas engines in the letter series, some diesel letter series engines, and the early number series diesel (450 and down).
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- 10+ Years
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Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
if you use modern detergent oil make sure the sludge is cleaned out of the engine 1st if it ran non detergent oil, or the detergent will break all the old sludge loose causing problems
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- Cub Star
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:52 pm
- Zip Code: 57523
- Tractors Owned: 1947 Farmall Cub
Copar Panzer t65 year ?
1948 Farmall H
Buckskin Farmall H
Farmall MD w belly mounted ih sickle mower
Farmall super MD-TA
Farmall 400 Diesel
Farmall 450 Diesel - Location: South Eastern SD
Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
To clean sludge do you just drop the oil pan or can you clean it out without doing that? Is sludge just built up dirt and other contaminants that work there way into the engine?
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- Team Cub Mentor
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Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
Sludge is primarily combustion residue.farmallcubkid wrote:To clean sludge do you just drop the oil pan or can you clean it out without doing that? Is sludge just built up dirt and other contaminants that work there way into the engine?
Without starting the engine. Drain engine oil. Add one or two quarts of diesel fuel to crank case. Shake heck out of tractor, let set for 1/2 hour, shake more. Drain diesel. New oil filter and engine oil.
Another alternative is a rapid oil change. Change oil, operate engine for two or three hours, another oil change.
Opinion. If tractor has been maintained, service on regular intervals, I wouldn't worry about potential sludge. Just change the oil and filter.
I have an excuse. CRS.
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Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
Ash is the unburnable residue that remains after oil burns. This is primarily NOT from the lubricating oil itself, but from the metallic additives in the oil. For a simple example, ZDDP additive leaves zinc behind in the accumulated ash when it is burned. (This detail by itself should be enough to illustrate the insanity of buying low ash oil then dumping in a zinc additive.) The need for low ash oil in IH tractors, from everything I have see, comes into play with the larger 6-cylinder gas engines in the 460/560 and some later tractors. These engines migrated from the truck line. The problems come from ash deposits on the valve stems.
ZDDP is a friction modifier, added to oil to reduce wear on sliding surfaces, mainly needed for flat tappets in the lobes of camshafts. The need for high ZDDP was mainly driven by some of the high-strung GM V-8s that came along in the late 1950s. They had stiffer valve springs that kept the valves from floating but also started wearing the lobes off the camshafts. None of this is a problem for older low-speed engines, or even many of the newer engines that were not designed for extreme high-performance. As you can see, a zinc additive is not an alternative to using low ash oil. In fact, it makes the ash situation worse.
Now, to the general subject of putting do-it-yourself additives into motor oil, it is generally a bad idea. The additives the oil companies use are PACKAGES of different additives. They are chosen to work together to get the desired performance. If you dump something else in, you will upset the balance. For a made-up example, adding a detergent may interfere with the viscosity index improvers and reduce the viscosity. So I generally say to buy a "good" oil and don't add any snake oil. Special situations may call for adding something, but only if you can clearly state the exact reason for doing so. For example, on old tractor that has been parked for a decade or two may have stuck piston rings. In that case, you may dump in a cleaning additive (like Seafoam) and run it that way short term.
ZDDP is a friction modifier, added to oil to reduce wear on sliding surfaces, mainly needed for flat tappets in the lobes of camshafts. The need for high ZDDP was mainly driven by some of the high-strung GM V-8s that came along in the late 1950s. They had stiffer valve springs that kept the valves from floating but also started wearing the lobes off the camshafts. None of this is a problem for older low-speed engines, or even many of the newer engines that were not designed for extreme high-performance. As you can see, a zinc additive is not an alternative to using low ash oil. In fact, it makes the ash situation worse.
Now, to the general subject of putting do-it-yourself additives into motor oil, it is generally a bad idea. The additives the oil companies use are PACKAGES of different additives. They are chosen to work together to get the desired performance. If you dump something else in, you will upset the balance. For a made-up example, adding a detergent may interfere with the viscosity index improvers and reduce the viscosity. So I generally say to buy a "good" oil and don't add any snake oil. Special situations may call for adding something, but only if you can clearly state the exact reason for doing so. For example, on old tractor that has been parked for a decade or two may have stuck piston rings. In that case, you may dump in a cleaning additive (like Seafoam) and run it that way short term.
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- 10+ Years
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Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
As far as a Cub goes, my opinion is run any decent engine oil and don't worry about it. If you live down south where temperatures are generally warm, you can run a straight 30w oil and if you're up north you may want to run a multi-weight oil like a 10w-30 or 10w-40.
1929 Farmall Regular
1935 John Deere B
1937 John Deere A
1941 John Deere H
1952 John Deere B
1953 Farmall Cub
1935 John Deere B
1937 John Deere A
1941 John Deere H
1952 John Deere B
1953 Farmall Cub
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- 10+ Years
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Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
ricky racer wrote:As far as a Cub goes, my opinion is run any decent engine oil and don't worry about it. If you live down south where temperatures are generally warm, you can run a straight 30w oil and if you're up north you may want to run a multi-weight oil like a 10w-30 or 10w-40.
We're talking about a low compression/RPM/power machine that has probably had all sorts of terrible substances in the crankcase throughout its life. As long as you're running the right weight for your climate and changing the oil regularly, it probably doesn't matter which special additives or lack thereof are present in the oil.
Jim
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- 10+ Years
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Re: Low Ash Engine Oil
ricky racer wrote:As far as a Cub goes, my opinion is run any decent engine oil and don't worry about it. If you live down south where temperatures are generally warm, you can run a straight 30w oil and if you're up north you may want to run a multi-weight oil like a 10w-30 or 10w-40.
And all the people said "AMEN."
I saw a meme on some tractor page one time that went like this:
How to choose an engine oil for your tractor:
1. Verify that it is in fact oil
2. Pour it in.
Just about any oil on the shelf today is better than what they were using 75 years ago.
My $.02
Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates
Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
Celebrating 75 years of the Super A: 1947-2022
Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
Celebrating 75 years of the Super A: 1947-2022
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