Surplus Military Guns collecting/shooting/hunting

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Re: Surplus Military Guns collecting/shooting/hunting

Postby BigBill » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:09 pm

spiveyman wrote:The VZ-24 is chambered for 8mm. I thought about doing a dab of paint, but I really think I'll just leave it alone. All the parts are original, and all numbers match. I would like to leave it that way - it is completely unmolested and one of the few I've seen that haven't been refinished / outfitted with replacement parts. Mine was made in 1936 if you decode all the stamps beside the bolt. I knew about the "24" meaning 1924. VZ is short for "vzor" which means "model", therefore "model 24". I am not familiar with the "C". I don't know what that means.


I just found the VZ24 being offered in 7mm at century arms. They also have the VZ24 in 8mm too. The 7mm mauser round is fun to shoot plus the recoil is so low you can shoot it all day. The 6,5mm swede and the 7mm mauser rounds are about the same recoil. Yet both are deadly accurate with plenty of knockdown power. I have shot the 8mm's too.

I first wanted to collect all the different mausers but when i heard there were over 1,000+ different mausers i figured i never beable to find all of them. Plus the cost of doing it. Just a few would do.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: Surplus Military Guns collecting/shooting/hunting

Postby spiveyman » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:17 pm

Mr Bill, you're right. That's my bad. The VZ-24 was 8mm , but a lot of countries contracted for VZ-24s for their own militaries. Some of the contracted rifles for some South American countries were chambered for 7mm. My fault. I read that at one time but had forgotten. I too thought it would be fun to collect mausers, and like you I soon realized how many there were.

I've never shot a 7mm mauser. Dad's and mine are both 8mm. As I recall, though, neither had much kick. I am a big guy however. . .
Andrew Spivey

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." - Friedrich Nietzsche

'49 Cub.....(Mr. Cub)
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Re: Surplus Military Guns collecting/shooting/hunting

Postby BigBill » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:49 am

I hunt with a magnum so kick isn't a problem with a few rounds. But at the local range with a day of shooting even the 30-06 will put some pain in my shoulder after a few boxes.(4+) I think the steel butt plate is killer on the bolt action military guns.

The M93/M95 chilean 7mm mausers were manufactured by DWM and by Lowe in Germany. These are small ring mausers(receivers/barrel threads). Where the VZ24 Czech and the 1908 Brazilian 7mm mausers are large ring 98 action mausers. The mexican 7mm mauser was a highly sought after action for doing builds because of its 98 bolt action. I believe these were a heavier 98 bolt in a small ring action. This is why we still don't see many of the orginal mexican 7mm mausers around there scarce.

Then we have the spanish 7mm mausers. This is were we need to use caution. Some of the spanish 7mm mausers were converted to 308 cetme not 308win. This is far below the 308win round in power. These were sold as being in 308win too(advertised). Thet say to shoot it safely to reload it on the lower 308win side again to be safe i would only use the 150gr bullets max. Now some have had no problems but some have had problems with the heavier rounds. Its just not worth taking a chance to me anyway. In 7mm's these are nice little carbines too.

Ammo info; (food for thought & safety)
Some of the 8mm surplus ammo is hotter than others too. The surplus 8mm turk ammo is very stout (hot). Too hot for the 8mm semi-auto's. Plus the gun powder burn rate is off for the semi-auto cycling. Even with the egyptian hakim with the adjustable gas system the bolt can open before the bullet leaves the barrel putting the 50k of breech pressure in the shooters face. At first we thought it was an out of battery firing then i figured out the bolt was cycling way too early before the bullet left the barrel. The bullet is between the gas port and the muzzle when the bolt would pull back opening up the chamber. This is why we have to watch what ammo and bullet weight we use in the military semi auto's. We also need to watch what primers, gun powder and bullet weight we use if we reload for the semi auto's too. I use the CCI # 34 nato primers when i reload all my military calibers(large rifle primers). This primer has a thicker wall so the floating firing pins won't slamfire in the semi auto's. But it will still work in the bolt action rifles too. They offer the small rifle primers in the thicker wall nato primers too(223).

My point is on any gun with an adjustable gas system(semi auto) you need to adjust the gas valve to the ammo your shooting because the less gas the system sees to operate it the better. The excess gas the system gets to operate it will only beat up the gun so less is better. Plus you can avoid an accident too. Know your guns gas system and how it operates too. On one system the gas valve adjusts how much gas the system gets to operate it so the more the gas valve is closed is better.(Egy. hakim/rasheed) On the other gas system the gas valve adjusts how much gas is exhausted from the system so the more the valve is open is better.(FN49) Don't get mixed up adjusting these two totally different gas systems.

Safety info;
This was a big problem in the sks's with the very first american manufactured 7,62x39 ammo because they used the soft primers in the military surplus rifle with a floating firing pin (semi auto's). And because the bolt was never cleaned properly of all the sticky cosmoline that would stick the floating firing pin and make it also slam fire. Soaking the bolt without taking the firing pin out wouldn't be proper cleaning. The bore in the bolt is full of cosmoline that can't get out. Sooner or later its a ticking bomb and it will slamfire if not cleaned properly.

You should make sure the firing pin bore is clean in any gun wether its a semi auto or a bolt action. The bolts on the mausers do come apart very easily. I like to put a little oil or moly
on the firing pin spring on the bolt action rifles. On the semi auto firing pins i may put only "1" drop of oil on it thats all after its squeeky clean and dry.

The gun powder for the semi auto's is IMR 4895 it has the corect burn rate. I use IMR 4895 in all my military bolt actions and semi auto's too this way i can make no mistakes on which ammo i'm using, i only have one kind. With the CCI #34 nato primers too.

Some of the semi-auto's don't like the heavier bullets too. Like on the new russian saiga its a version of the ak47/akm it comes in 308win. Your not suppose to shoot anything heavier than 168gr bullets. With this recomendation i wouldn't go higher than 150gr just to be well in the safe zone.

This is very understandable if we look at the bullet weights. The lighter bullet has less breech pressure and it starts to move quicker from the chamber before the breech pressure actually peaks the bullet is starting to move out. With the heavier bullet takes more pressure to get the bullet to start moving which causes a higher peak in breech pressure before the bullet moves. The higher breech pressure can raise hell with the semi auto action and even throw the cycle timing off too. It pays off to have the knowledge about your weapon before you shoot it or reload for it.

Like any firearm owner you need to completely know your weapon on how it works and functions. We need to know about the ammo too. Which one is safe and which one we have to avoid. This is why there has been so many accidents with the military surplus guns and its not the guns fault.

Sorry for going off topic and the long post but its a good safety thing to pass on. Research and knowledge is a good thing when it comes to safety. Shooting is a fun sport when we do it right. These old war horses are a hoot to shoot.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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Re: Surplus Military Guns collecting/shooting/hunting

Postby Jackman » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:05 pm

I just got my NYS pistol permit :{_}: and had 4 illegal hand guns made legal :D , one of the guns is a Colt 45 semi auto US Army issue my Grandfather brought it home from France in WWI,,,, I was in the Army in 1980-83 and carried that exact same gun only difference is the WWI Colt had wood grips and the one I carried had plastic , thought that was pretty neat to have such a long run with almost no change.
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Re: Surplus Military Guns collecting/shooting/hunting

Postby BigBill » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:21 pm

Jackman wrote:I just got my NYS pistol permit :{_}: and had 4 illegal hand guns made legal :D , one of the guns is a Colt 45 semi auto US Army issue my Grandfather brought it home from France in WWI,,,, I was in the Army in 1980-83 and carried that exact same gun only difference is the WWI Colt had wood grips and the one I carried had plastic , thought that was pretty neat to have such a long run with almost no change.


The colt 1911 in 45acp is still being manufactured today and copied by many companies around the globe. The Auto Ordnance company in Wooster,Mass. is offering an exact WW2 copy 1911a1. Its an awesome pistol just like the orginal these people also manufacture the tommy gun in 45acp too. This pistol from auto ordnance is also very affordable. Mine has been flawless for over 500rds now right out of the box reliabile. For an american company thats awesome..... I've had new colts and springfield 1911's in the past that stovepiped and jammed all the time. Alot of the new 1911's being offered today need break in time and tweeking to make them function properly and right. I think its quality control in manufacturing is where the problem is because tolarences aren't controlled or watched. Even the Chinese at norinco can manufacture a reliable 1911 plus auto ordnance can do it here in the us so why can't all the others do it too?
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
BigBill
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Re: Surplus Military Guns collecting/shooting/hunting

Postby BigBill » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:30 pm

Yogie wrote:
stkmantn wrote:I love those old Mosin rifles but for deer I alway grab my old M1 Garand.

I'd love to shoot one of those just one time... The amo that came with the Mosin rifle has a delay in the firing, kind of makes it funner when just plinking. :lol:


The delay your experiencing is because of the cosmoline thats still inside the bolt on the firing pin and spring. You need to disassemble the bolt and clean it properly and then the firing will be quick and crisp the way it should be.

www.aimsurplus.com still offers the russian mosins for around $100 and the surplus military FMJ ammo too. The russian manufactured Barnaul 7,62x54r ammo in 203gr soft point can still be found at www.wideners.com for $6 for 20rds(a box). Figure $100 for the rifle and $6 for the ammo plus a hunting license you can put meat on the table. A while back the "backwoods home magazine" did an artical about the surplus military guns being cheap game getters. You don't need a $1,000 rifle to get meat.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
BigBill
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