Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

IH CUB LoBoy Series - 154, 184, 185 Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your LoBoy related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby LFEngineering » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:34 am

Alright I did some searching, but didn't come up with any good answers.

I've had the tractor for 3 months now and have used it in temperatures from 25 - 93 degrees. About 2 weeks ago it was in the high 20's and I noticed that the breather (on top the creeper) had about a table spoon of oil around it. I dismissed it at first, figuring it may have been there the whole time and I just never noticed. However I was fixing the cover on the tractor yesterday and noticed small stain in the dirt. I crawled under there with a flashlight & noticed a 10" diameter circle of oily-dirt & a good coating of oil on the tranny / creeper. It seems to be coming from the creeper or the front end of the transmission and dripping off the creeper. The bottom of the transmission is relatively dry. My first though was some water got it in the creeper forcing the oil up and out the breather, the only problem is I have no idea how water could get in there, the tractor is always covered and it hasn't been very humid the last month or so. I doubt it's any kind of thermal expansion unless it's drawing in air when it's cold at night and forcing oil out when it warms up during the day (had a chainsaw do that once). It was 22 degrees out yesterday with 40 mph winds so I didn't do much more investigation.

Anyone else experience something like this?
LFEngineering
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:39 am
Zip Code: 01057

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:34 am

I have very little experience with 154, and none with the creeper, but I do not that cub transmissions will condense water inside them just form temperature changes. Mine, which are stored inside a lightly insulated shed with a concrete floor will have a little water in them after a couple years. When they set to be stored at the farm in a shed that was pretty open, they condensed a lot of water I would think the creeper with he cast iron housing would do the same.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government
to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry
User avatar
John *.?-!.* cub owner
Team Cub Guide
Team Cub Guide
 
Posts: 19476
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:09 pm
Location: Mo, Potosi
Zip Code: 63664
Tractors Owned: 47, 48, 49 cub plus Wagner loader & other attachments. 41 Farmall H.

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby Eugene » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:09 am

The 154 with creeper that I purchased, sat outside for years. When I removed and repaired the creeper there was no water in it.

Just thinking. I would remove the tunnel cover (just to look things over), drain the creeper, put a heat source on the creeper for several hours. See what drains out.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12529
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby LFEngineering » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:59 am

Is there any way to drain it other then removing it?
LFEngineering
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:39 am
Zip Code: 01057

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby SONNY » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:45 pm

Are you sure its not leaking out your front trans. input shaft then running down? ---one of my 185's has the front trans. seal shot and leaking!---just something else for you to check on to be sure of.-- thanks; sonny
SONNY
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2242
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:26 pm
Zip Code: 00000

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby Eugene » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:09 pm

LFEngineering wrote:Is there any way to drain it other then removing it?
The service manual says to drain before removing cap screws to remove the creeper from the transmission. Neither the service or parts manual shows or explains how to drain the fluid.

I went to shop to check my 154's creeper. Really couldn't get under the tractor to see, mower deck mounted.

CRS, I do not recall how I drained the fluid from the creeper when I repaired it.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12529
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby LFEngineering » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:27 pm

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think it's full of h2o. It was 14 degrees last night and a high of 33 today. I wanted to move some pallets around the yard so I went outside at around 2:30 today and hooked up my magnetic oil pan heater, figured I'd give it an hour or so to warm up before I tired starting it. After awhile I hopped on and hit the key, she started right up. Problem was when I let the clutch out it would die even though I was in neutral. I tried to shift it into low gear and the hi-low selector was stuck. The pieces of the puzzle were starting to add up. I slapped the magnetic heater on the creeper assembly for and hour or so and finally got it to break free. Once in the garage i pulled the breather off and looked inside, brown oily substance that sloshes around when I shake the tractor. My guess, water wit a film of oil on top.

As for the fix. I had read about a fellow who drilled and tapped the bottom of the creeper with an 1/8" NPT plug when he removed it. Although most of you will shake your head at this one "I think I'm going to tap it in place". Based on all the exploded views & pictures I've seen there is a pretty big target to hit at the bottom of the creeper. I've scaled a few drawings and have a good feeling I can hit the target area. Frankly the cup or so of water mixture should flush out any drill fragments and it can't be worse than the metal, water oil mixture that's been in there for who knows how long.
LFEngineering
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:39 am
Zip Code: 01057

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby LFEngineering » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:58 pm

Like I said I used some pictures showing the inside / backside of the creeper, took my best guesstimate and 3/4 of an inch later I struck water. About a quart in total 99% water 1% oily sludge. I tapped the bottom of the creeper with a 1/8" NPT pipe tap & capped it off. The 1st flush was 100% diesel, ran it around the yard once & drained it out. No metal flake or particles just tinted diesel. The 2nd flush was 50/50 diesel to tractor fluid. I'm going to let that sit in there over night & run it around the yard tomorrow a bit before draining it out. depending on how dirty it is I may do one more diesel / oil flush before refilling it with straight oil.

I have no maintenance records prior to my ownership so I can't tell when the last fluid change was. No telling how long the water has been in there or how it even got that full. All I know is now that it's got a drain plug I'll probably change it at the same time as the engine oil.
Attachments
Creeper Water.JPG
Creeper Water.JPG (128.37 KiB) Viewed 108 times
Water.JPG
Water.JPG (124.64 KiB) Viewed 108 times
LFEngineering
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:39 am
Zip Code: 01057

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:43 am

Nice addition to your creeper. It's a real pain to drain it.
I change the oil in the creeper when I change the transmission fluid. The creeper does not collect as much condensation as the transmission.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH Model 15 Tiller
outdoors4evr
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:44 pm
Location: Davison, MI
Zip Code: 48423
Tractors Owned: 184

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:02 am

outdoors4evr wrote:Nice addition to your creeper. It's a real pain to drain it.
I change the oil in the creeper when I change the transmission fluid. The creeper does not collect as much condensation as the transmission.

So, to solve the mystery, how DO you drain it?
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

"1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
1951 Farmall Super C w/FH
User avatar
Don McCombs
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 10552
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake
Zip Code: 21550
Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
1951 Farmall Super C w/FH
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Tranmission / Creeper Leak - Only When Cold?

Postby Eugene » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:48 pm

Don McCombs wrote:So, to solve the mystery, how DO you drain it?
When repairing the creeper, the service manual says to split the tractor first, then drain the creeper. So - I don't know either, unless the drain is one of the bottom cap screws.

My 1973 Operator's Manual doesn't list the creeper or lubrication for it.

I like the idea of drilling and tapping the bottom of the creeper and installing a plug. Still won't make things much easier since I would have to drop off the mower deck to access the creeper.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12529
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y


Return to LoBoy Series - 154, 184, 185

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests