184 electric pto

[Charles Zook]

Good Morning
Problems continue with tis pto unit and parts availability. I am looking for other 184 owners who have encountered this problem, and wonder if it is possible to interchange to a pto unit from a 154 or a 185, and are these dependable with parts available at a reasonable cost? I do not know anyrhing about the 154 or 185 pto's and how they operate, or if the dimensions would allow a interchange. Any ideas or advice would be appreciated. The electric pto units have been disassembled in both of our 184's and are obviosly in need od repair. Thank you in advance.
C.D. Zook

[Landreo]

What problems are you having? I am not sure if the 154 clutches will fit since I don't have a 184 to compare to. The 154 clutchs have alot of peices but most are just stacks of the same thing. The bearings are standard bearings, wavy washers are available through mcmaster-carr. The only unusual thing would be the clutch plates which last along time but are still out there as replacements. If you do not want the electric PTO, send it to me, I can use it. Otherwise it still may be easier to fix your old electric pto than to adapt a 154 clutch.

[BigBill]

Have you set up the electric pto as per drawing or repair manual? (running air gap?)

Have you bench tested the clutch to see if it locks up? (tested the magnet?)

Are your ground wires cleaned at the connections?

I'm only familiar with electric clutches on the 65,000lb chuckers.(machines)

[Charles Zook]

I have interchanged the old clutch parts between the two tractors in hopes of getting one usable pto unit. I did get the pto running, but the clutch parts are well worn and the unit is throwing friction sparks and becomes extremely hot very quickly. Our local I.H. dealer pulls up the unit on computer and reports replacement parts are not available, but they have a "super-ceded package unit for $610.00 plus taxes, and I have not followed up with the dealer to confirm that this will replace the entire unit, or if additional parts will be required to complete the change over to the new unit?? If the package allows complete conversion, without additional costs, it appears that this would be the best alternative, but I always seem to resist the idea of consumers paying for a poor design and lack of available repair parts. The old mechanical pto's have proven to be extremely dependable and old tractors from the 1930's- 1940's, & etc. are still working very well, but this is progress to independent pto's and the consequences that go with progress are inevitable. OK,
that is enough soap-box complaints.
Thank You,
C.D. Zook

[BigBill]

I'm just trying to help you out and save you some $$$.

Is there a way to lap in the mating surfaces to get a better loc up on the electric clutch?

If you have a surface plate or a good flat surface you can use a lapping compound to resurface the mating surfaces again to there orginal flatness. Then the air gap needs to be the same all around the clutch when its off.

If the PTO is sparking its not mating up correctly.

If your magnetic coil is working the clutch has to be reworked so it will loc up correctly.

Were talking a 20 to 25 year old part thats lasted more than your normal new car. I don't think its a poor design, most of the time its lac of maintenance. I come from an engineering background in a test lab were we life tested new designs along with old designs that had problems in the past. After 25 years of service i think the design is ok after all its been on the time clock working all that time with no down time. Once you fix it right it will last another 25 years.

The old mechanical pto's have shown signs of wear too. The shifter ingagement fork shows the wear. Plus the splines on the shafts can wear too. I've seen it, time does take its toll on everything.

[Bermuda Ken]

If you are geting sparks, the magnet coil is shot. Time for a new one. They can NOT be repaired.

I found the electromagnetic clutch design on the 184 to be superior to the old dry disc setup. If properly operated they will last a VERY long time. The key to keeping them alive a long time is twofold...

1....check/adjust the air gap on a regular basis.

2.....engage and disengage the clutch at the lowest engine rpm possible (without causing engine stall). This alone will double the life of clutch.

If one decides to "re-work" the 184 to the old design, you will need to find a complete donor setup (that probably is in as bad or worse shape). This will be very costly and probably not worth the effort.

[BigBill]

Dumb question, will the later 16hp cub cadet electric pto interchange with the 184 pto? These had larger mower decks.

Can the coil be rewound? I've rewound coils on the dirtbike stators. I used a smaller wire to make more wraps for brighter lights. There is a stator guy who reworks these coils and i think even if there sealed he is on the net. I think he is Ricky Stator while its a tad different than what he does he may do it.

I would watch ebay or contact hamiltonbob too he may have something from his parts bin.

[BigBill]

If you are geting sparks, the magnet coil is shot. Time for a new one. They can NOT be repaired.

I found the electromagnetic clutch design on the 184 to be superior to the old dry disc setup. If properly operated they will last a VERY long time. The key to keeping them alive a long time is twofold...

1....check/adjust the air gap on a regular basis.

2.....engage and disengage the clutch at the lowest engine rpm possible (without causing engine stall). This alone will double the life of clutch.

If one decides to "re-work" the 184 to the old design, you will need to find a complete donor setup (that probably is in as bad or worse shape). This will be very costly and probably not worth the effort.

I always wait for my tractor to warm up to operating temperature too before engaging the pto at the lowest rpm on all my cub cadets and my int154's. At the sametime we need to know were we are mowing too so we don't hit the hidden stuff that tests our pto's to there limits too. I have hit stumps while mowing and i have gotten to be gun fighter fast with disengaging the pto lever too, like mili second fast when i hear the clutches screaming.

When mowing were i haven't been before i go in with the deck in its highest position and do little sweeps looking for rocks and wood. If i lower the deck i keep my hand on the pto lever just incase. We have to remember that pushing the clutch in does nothing with the live pto.

[Charles Zook]

Thank You to everyone, for the informational replies. I did set the air gap at .018" and the poor design comment was based on the fact that this was apparently a design that was used for a limited time frame, with lack of replacement parts to maintain this unit. I finally ordered the "super-ceded unit" and it is supposed to be at dealers today. Dealer estimated $approx. $ 680.00 for this 'SUPER-CEDED CLUTCH PACKAGE" and I suppose that also irritated me on the original design and this replacement is not a very large amount of parts. Anyway, this should allow a nice little tractor, after installing the new pto.
Thanks
C.D. Zook