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154 Starting Problem -- Solved --
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- Bill Hudson
- Team Cub
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77 F-Cub - Red Long Stripe - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OH, Madison
154 Starting Problem -- Solved --
Folks,
When it comes to electrical stuff, I can get in over my head real quick.
Here's the scenario. I unhooked the following wires/cables: battery ground, oil pressure sensor, starter/generator cable, voltage regulator, and lights. Removed the engine and relaced the rear seal in 154. Installed the engine and cleaned each wire/cable and then hooked up the wires/cables with the battery ground being last. Tried to start the engine and nothing happens. Clutch depressed. Battery shows over 13 volts. This puppy ran like a top when I parked it to replace the rear seal.
This sure seems simple enough but electrical stuff is not something I'm good at. Give me a plow!
Bill
When it comes to electrical stuff, I can get in over my head real quick.
Here's the scenario. I unhooked the following wires/cables: battery ground, oil pressure sensor, starter/generator cable, voltage regulator, and lights. Removed the engine and relaced the rear seal in 154. Installed the engine and cleaned each wire/cable and then hooked up the wires/cables with the battery ground being last. Tried to start the engine and nothing happens. Clutch depressed. Battery shows over 13 volts. This puppy ran like a top when I parked it to replace the rear seal.
This sure seems simple enough but electrical stuff is not something I'm good at. Give me a plow!
Bill
Last edited by Bill Hudson on Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 154 Starting Problem
Did you remove the connector from the starter key switch? If not, you may want to check that connector, it may have come loose while you were moving all the wires.
- Bigdog
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Re: 154 Starting Problem
Bill - make sure the clutch switch is making contact. This is one of those circuits one just needs to trace out to find the problem.
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.
My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!
http://www.cubtug.com
- Bill Hudson
- Team Cub
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77 F-Cub - Red Long Stripe - Circle of Safety: Y
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Re: 154 Starting Problem
Folks,
I've progressed to the point that I can get the engine to turn over very slowly, and not for long, but it doesn't turn over each time I try to start it.
Any help will be appreciated.
Bill
I've progressed to the point that I can get the engine to turn over very slowly, and not for long, but it doesn't turn over each time I try to start it.
Any help will be appreciated.
Bill
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- Location: SC, Ridgeway
Re: 154 Starting Problem
Hooked up correctly? The starter mounts clean? If so, leave the key off and run jumper cables from neg terminal to the starter case, pos terminal just touch on the "A" terminal of the starter. If it does not spin the engine then there is a problem with with the starter or battery. I have had teminal nuts so tight and corroded that removing them twisted the terminal and tore some of the internal connections, that may happened but eitherway just bypass all and check the starter with jumper cables.
- Bill Hudson
- Team Cub
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77 F-Cub - Red Long Stripe - Circle of Safety: Y
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Re: 154 Starting Problem
Thanks. I'll give it a shot.
Bill
Bill
- Bill Hudson
- Team Cub
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77 F-Cub - Red Long Stripe - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OH, Madison
Re: 154 Starting Problem
Just got through using jumper cables to try the starter/generator. The s/g turned over, but very slowly, just like it does with the key. Battery still has over 12.5 volts. If I hold the key in the start position and push the clutch in and out, the clutch safety lockout works. I thought that I might have the fan belt to tight causing a bind, so I adjusted it. Still no difference. The frustration meter is going up.
Any help is appreciated.
Bill
Any help is appreciated.
Bill
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- 10+ Years
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tricycle cub
154 (4)
Earthmaster (2)
JD 40T, JD 420 crawler-loader, JD MT
JD Unstyled A, Styled A, Unstyled AR
JD H
Centaur Tractor
AC Model C, G
Cub Cadets (9)
Gibson D
Red-E - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: SC, Ridgeway
Re: 154 Starting Problem
Not trying to insult you but does the engine turn when you grab the fan blades, in other words is the engine tight? If not then I would loosen the fan belt and spin the starter pulley looking and listening for binding or worse scraping of wires inside the starter. If not then, jump again without the belt hooked up and the starter should take off very quickly almost like a snap. If it does not then take off the two wires on the starter and look at the terminals. Are they tight, did one possible rotate when you took off the terminal nuts initially? It may be time to take the starter apart, not much inside but look at the brushes, internal wires to the terminals, etc...
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Re: 154 Starting Problem
Check the ground (both ends). Take the cable off, clean it, and reinstall, even if you did it before.
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Re: 154 Starting Problem
Bill
If you have a 3 wire starter/gen you probably have the M terminal and A terminal reversed. This would cause the syptoms that you describe and is a common problem with the 3 terminal.
Here are a couple of diagrams to help you out. shown is one for the 2 terminal and also the 3 terminal. Check the wiring I think that you will find your problem
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... age-58.jpg
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... age-59.jpg
Good Luck
Mark
If you have a 3 wire starter/gen you probably have the M terminal and A terminal reversed. This would cause the syptoms that you describe and is a common problem with the 3 terminal.
Here are a couple of diagrams to help you out. shown is one for the 2 terminal and also the 3 terminal. Check the wiring I think that you will find your problem
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... age-58.jpg
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%2 ... age-59.jpg
Good Luck
Mark
Experiance is knowing what NOT to do the next time.......
1937 John Deere A (Big John)
1953 Farmall Cub (LiL Red)
Lots of projects.
1937 John Deere A (Big John)
1953 Farmall Cub (LiL Red)
Lots of projects.
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- 10+ Years
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Re: 154 Starting Problem
A 154 should only have a 2 wire starter generator according to the wiring diagram in the service manual (GSS-1408 W/Revision 4, September, 1978)
- Jersey_cub
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1952 Farmall Cub The Little Red Binder - Location: Farmingdale,NJ
Re: 154 Starting Problem
Bill Hudson wrote:Folks,
I've progressed to the point that I can get the engine to turn over very slowly, and not for long, but it doesn't turn over each time I try to start it.
Any help will be appreciated.
Bill
Bill: I have had my 154 apart to repair more times then I can count and one thing I do know when it comes to starting problems you have to start at the battery connections and work to the starter and if there are no bad connections, as you have indicated in your posts. My best guess is that you need to remove the starter- generator and clean it up check the fields for signs of wear ( shiny spots), check the brushes they could very well be worn down to the point that they are not conducting as they should. Also check the armature were they make contact clean it up if it has a deep ridge in it, it should be replaced. And if the stater is touching the armature at all the bushings are worn and need to be replaced.
I hope this helps
Joe
- Bill Hudson
- Team Cub
- Posts: 9513
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:50 am
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77 F-Cub - Red Long Stripe - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: OH, Madison
Re: 154 Starting Problem
Folks,
Thanks for all the help and encouragement. I'm because I did not check the obvious. The battery was shot, even thou it showed over 12.5 volts, when it was load tested the volts instantly dropped to less than 4 and kept dropping. New battery - problem solved.
Thanks again for all the help and encouragement.
Bill
Thanks for all the help and encouragement. I'm because I did not check the obvious. The battery was shot, even thou it showed over 12.5 volts, when it was load tested the volts instantly dropped to less than 4 and kept dropping. New battery - problem solved.
Thanks again for all the help and encouragement.
Bill
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Re: 154 Starting Problem -- Solved --
Way to go you found the problem!!!!!!
These machines are sure sweet when there running right.
The battery had a short between the plates. It won't show up until it sees a load. Sometimes these new fang dangled battery checkers are worth there money. I wonder if the problem would show up on the amp gage on the battery charger? It should take a negative dive when you hit the starter switch. I would think anyway. I think the older battery chargers had more features to checkout the batteries. BB
These machines are sure sweet when there running right.
The battery had a short between the plates. It won't show up until it sees a load. Sometimes these new fang dangled battery checkers are worth there money. I wonder if the problem would show up on the amp gage on the battery charger? It should take a negative dive when you hit the starter switch. I would think anyway. I think the older battery chargers had more features to checkout the batteries. BB
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.
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