185 Stuck Engine

[popeye2347]

...Nothing new or earth-shattering, bought with stuck engine but was running a 'couple' of years ago. It has a 3ph or I would never had considered looking at it. Anyway, it had been setting, water drained, fuel shutoff, dirty oil but no 'milk.' The starter tried but could not turn the engine over. In third gear I pulled it around the drive and yard, never getting any movement from the engine [as evidenced by lack of fan movement relative to the shroud.]. No movement with it in reverse and being pulled either.

So, I removed the fuel tank, then the spark plugs. Poured some EvapoRust down the cylinders and, cold weather set in. Just my luck. Anyway, I thought of putting compressed air into the cylinders in an effort to get the crank to turn. 160psi in any two cylinders at the same time failed to get any movement. WAIT-Some valves should be open allowing air to escape either in the intake or exhaust, or maybe a small bit in the crankcase, but no leakage anywhere??? <<Do I have a broken cam?>> All 4 pistons are a little over an inch below the top of the spark plug threads, so, maybe a broken crank/rods as well?

Lacking guidance from here, my next move will to be remove the carb and valve covers and see what if anything I can tell from there. Then I guess the oil pan needs to come off to look at the crank and rods.

More than likely the head will need to come off, so any words of wisdom for removing the head bolts without twisting them off?

FWIW I searched the forum and failed to see anything that would shed light on what might be wrong, so, here is my tale of woe....

Any bits of advise or help is welcomed.

[Barnyard]

Basically the same as a Cub engine. When removing head bolts I use an impact set on a low setting and rattle the bolts by going forward and reverse. Here is what we did with several locked engines at a CubFest.

http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=109007

[popeye2347]

About the head bolts, if I were to place a brass hammer on a head bolt and rattle it with a air chisel [with a hammer head] would that help? Low power only of course. And yes, I will try the impact wrench. In fact I have a 3/8 butterfly impact that is low on power that should work just fine.

[Rick Spivey]

All 4 pistons are a little over an inch below the top of the spark plug threads, so, maybe a broken crank/rods as well?

This seems improbable, even if something broke. The crank would have to be broken, possibly more than once, and then the 4 pistons would have come to rest at the same place? I suspect instead that whatever you stuck down the spark plug hole didn't touch the pistons, but the block deck. The pistons are offset a little bit from the spark plug holes. However, if I am wrong and all 4 pistons are in the same place, then something is drastically wrong with the crankshaft or piston rods. Is it possible someone else opened the engine up and disconnected the piston rods. then allowed it to sit and freeze up? Do you have much of the history of what was done prior to you getting it? Check again. and then drop the pan if you are still convinced pistons are all at the same place.

[Eugene]

All 4 pistons are a little over an inch below the top of the spark plug threads.

Valves are almost directly below the spark plug hole. You are probably seeing the top of the webbing between valves.

Have you tried rocking the tractor back and forth, by hand, in 3rd gear? Spark plugs out, solvent on top of pistons.

Edit. Try the 160 psi on one cylinder at a time. At least 2 of the cylinders should leak compressed air. The other 2 cylinders, maybe, maybe not, depending on the cam/valve sequence.

[popeye2347]

Rick and Eugene; There is no indication of anyone having taken anything loose on the engine since it left the factory other than the carb. You may be right in my not feeling the top of the pistons, but the two center whatever it was I felt was different from the outer ones by {going on dim memory here] about 1/8 inch.

I have no history on the tractor to speak of. The prior owner bought it several years ago to 'get running", well you know the story.

Rocking the tractor? I drug it all over the yard and drive in both 3rd and reverse. No movement. Evapo-rust is in each plug hole, but it needs 75 degrees to work as per the container.

I tried 150/160 psi in two cylinders at once that still failed to move the crank. Same for the other two. And no air leakage from any of the cylinders from either the intake, exhaust or crankcase. Hummm...

So, as you probably guess, it is coming apart. With the coming warm weather it might get done sooner than later. I think I will remove the side covers first to check the cam. Still puzzled as to why no air leakage. I'm thinking that is why everything is locked up. Then if need be the oil pan and finally the head if it comes down to that.

Thanks all for your insight and suggestions.

I will report my findings for future reference.

[outdoors4evr]

I'd pull the oil pan first and then the head.
The valve cover can be removed and slid down a little ways without removing the intake / exhaust manifold.

[BigBill]

Wait,,,,,this is a job for kroil. Remove the spark plugs and soak each cylinder with kroil. Let it soak for a week since you don’t need the tractor right now. Then try towing it.

Note, if the pistons are at the same level two are going up and two are moving down since the rod journals are equally opposite inline two on a side.

[popeye2347]

Wait,,,,,this is a job for kroil. Remove the spark plugs and soak each cylinder with kroil. Let it soak for a week since you don’t need the tractor right now. Then try towing it.

Note, if the pistons are at the same level two are going up and two are moving down since the rod journals are equally opposite inline two on a side.

Good idea and observation. Thanks. I have already put Evapo-Rust in the cylinders, then, seen where it must be at least 75 degrees for it to work. Oh well, as you said I don't need the tractor right now so I will wait. In the meantime though I will remove the side covers because I can find no air flow thru any of the valves in any cylinders.

[Eugene]

Rocking the tractor? I drug it all over the yard and drive in both 3rd and reverse. No movement. Evapo-rust is in each plug hole, but it needs 75 degrees to work as per the container.

Solvent, then rock the tractor hard, forward and reverse, everytime you pass by the tractor. Puts jolts on the stuck pistons.

No air escaping the cylinders. Remove the valve cover. Attempt to lift each valve, flat bladed screwdriver. Rock the tractor while observing the cam. See if you get a very slight movement.

Starter removed? Could be any number of reasons an engine is locked up.

Prime the oil pump.

[outdoors4evr]

Have you removed the belt? The 185 has a sealed bearing in the fan. Might be seized up.

[Barnyard]

I think I would stick wit my proven method of smacking the top of the piston with a block of would and a big hammer like I explained above. Within a week I had 3 stuck engines moving by doing this.

[SONNY]

Barnyard!!!---got a stuck cub here that you can demonstrate for me!!! LOL! ---- dont have time to work on it and will probably have to put the cultivator on the 56 for next year gardens and potato row at club showgrounds.
The only I ever got stuck motors loose was with torch, block of wood, big hammer, and diesel fuel in used motor oil.
Heat down inside the water jacket, then go on top of the piston til very hot, hit block and go again with heat. takes a while but will work, corse after you get the pistons loose you have to install new rings and sometimes new pistons depending how good the old ones clean up.

[BigBill]

I had a Willy’s that was frozen. They over heated it till it froze. One piston I used the torch with 200,000 btu rose bud with a piece of wood with a sledge hammer. I won. It over heated so bad the center bolt in the block had a crack. I ground the crack drilled two small holes at both ends of the crack then welded it up. Decked the block. Sold the motor.

[popeye2347]

Newest update 12-12-2020; I removed the valve cover and discovered a lifter for cylinders 3 and 4 were raised about 1/4". Assuming this is enough to raise the valve off of the seat, why do those cylinders hold compressed air? It appears the valve cover has never been removed since new so no one has tampered with their adjustment. SO, on with the head removal. I was very apprehensive about twisting off one or more head bolts, but I prevailed on all of them without any damage [except to some loose paint on the heads of the bolts!] So tomorrow the head will come off and hopefully reveal some secrets. Send me some good luck.