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184 will not shut off with key

IH CUB Lo-Boy Series - 154, 184, 185 Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Lo-Boy related issues.
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Larry B
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Larry B » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:44 pm

The resistor is on the back of the alternator. It should measure approx 10 ohms. The resistor performs the same job as the ALT idiot light on older cars. With key on and engine not running there will be current flowing from the ignition switch through theresistor and alternator to ground. This would cause the idiot light to light up. With engine running there is voltage coming out of the alternator that balances the voltage to the resistor. This caused the idiot light to go out. You can replace the resistor with a 12v bulb and it will act just like the idiot light cars had in the 60's and 70's.
The voltage applied to the resistor provides energy to excite the alternator and beging charging. When the voltage is removed from the resistor the alternator should stop charging.

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Jim Becker
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Larry B wrote:. . . When the voltage is removed from the resistor the alternator should stop charging.

You were right on until you got to this point. The voltage through the resistor is only needed to get the alternator started. Once it begins, it loops some of the output back to keep it going. It is this looped back output that is keeping the engine running with the ignition switch off.

Larry B
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Larry B » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:59 pm

I just went out and checked my 184. Key on i get battery voltage at the coil. Start engine i get charging voltage at the coil. Turn key off and voltage at the coil goes to zero and tractor turns off. If it stayed charging the engine would not shut off. Removing the voltage to the exciter resistor stops charging. I need to corrrect myself. The resistor is a 25 ohm not 10 ohm. Wrong vehicle.

Jim Becker
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:49 pm

Larry B wrote:I just went out and checked my 184. Key on i get battery voltage at the coil. Start engine i get charging voltage at the coil. Turn key off and voltage at the coil goes to zero and tractor turns off. If it stayed charging the engine would not shut off. Removing the voltage to the exciter resistor stops charging. I need to corrrect myself. The resistor is a 25 ohm not 10 ohm. Wrong vehicle.

No. The resistor is what lets the engine shut off. Try putting a jumper around the resistor and see if it will shut off.

Justbarf
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:13 pm

I just order a new excite resister from Hamilton bobs. I put it on, trying to weed out simple stuff first before i remove the alternator, and no change in trying to shut down the tractor. I looked at the wiring and still cannot find where anything is wired wrong. Could the ignition coil be wired wrong? Meaning could I have this wired backwards. If these were wired wrong could this then back feed from the alternator? If this is not correct, my next step would be taking off the alternator and seeing if something is wrong internally. My next step after that would be replace the wiring, because every wire is red making it hard to trace a wire when it goes into the thicker sleeved bundle.

Jim Becker
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:02 pm

I cannot imagine any way the alternator could fail that would cause your symptom.

Having your ignition coil wired backward will not cause your symptom.

Check the resistance value of your new resistor. It should be about 25 ohms. Ignition resistors look about the same but are less than 5 ohms. One of them could cause your symptom.

Check your wiring. The alternator should have exactly two wires connected that go somewhere else on the tractor. One should go directly to the ammeter. The other should go to one end of the resistor. That end of the resistor should have no other wires attached. Wiring different than this could cause your symptom.

Edit: Since this is a factory alternator installation, there probably is another wire from the two-wire connector on the alternator. It should go to the battery side of the starter solenoid. I suppose it could be shorted to the other terminal of the two-wire connector. But that would give different symptoms.

Justbarf
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:27 pm

This is what I bought for the altenator, 12V Resistor for Alternator For IH 184 Cub Lo-Boy. I says it has 4 ohms of resistance. Where can I purchase the correct resistor?

mozer71
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby mozer71 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:46 pm

Gosh this is great advise. I don't know what to say except the dash panel may have some live current. The switch itself should be isolated from everything but negative ground is part of it. just tryin' So a different switch using positive ground is something else.

Jim Becker
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:52 pm

The original part number was 534784R1 and was replaced with 107558C1. Do a google search with either one and get a list of possible sources.

Justbarf
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:25 pm

So before I rip down all the wiring, I decided to rebuild the alternator. The brushes were really worn down and there was about 2 cups of dirt inside! I should get the rebuild kit on Wednesday and slap it back together and go from there. If this doesn't work, yet it needs it anyway, I will start pulling wires off the see if anything is melted together. I also order a new starter solenoid.

Justbarf
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:30 pm

Jim Becker wrote:I cannot imagine any way the alternator could fail that would cause your symptom.

Having your ignition coil wired backward will not cause your symptom.

Check the resistance value of your new resistor. It should be about 25 ohms. Ignition resistors look about the same but are less than 5 ohms. One of them could cause your symptom.

Check your wiring. The alternator should have exactly two wires connected that go somewhere else on the tractor. One should go directly to the ammeter. The other should go to one end of the resistor. That end of the resistor should have no other wires attached. Wiring different than this could cause your symptom.

Edit: Since this is a factory alternator installation, there probably is another wire from the two-wire connector on the alternator. It should go to the battery side of the starter solenoid. I suppose it could be shorted to the other terminal of the two-wire connector. But that would give different symptoms.


Jim,
I have two wires connected to the positive side of the ignition coil and 1 wire on the negative side of the ignition coil. The negative side then drops down to the distributor. I'm not 100% sure where the positive side wires are going since all my wires are red. Does this seem right?
Thanks for your help.
Justin

Jim Becker
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:08 am

Sounds like it could be right. One of the wires on the coil + should be the feed from the ignition switch. The other should connect to the resistor at the alternator. It should connect to the side of the resistor AWAY from the alternator. The other end of the resistor should have a wire to the alternator. This is what I said you should check in my previous post. Isn't the resistor right on or near the alternator? It can't be hard to check that one wire!

Review the wiring diagram posted near the bottom of page 1 of this thread.

Justbarf
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:11 am

Update: I received my rebuild kit yesterday and rebuilt the alternator with all new components. The Tractor shuts off perfect now. I assume maybe one of the components int he alternator was fused together causing some type of voltage feedback!

Justbarf
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Justbarf » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:47 pm

Hopefully final update!!!!!
First off I want to thank everyone for helping me. If anyone is every around lower west Michigan send me a message and I will have a hot cup of coffee waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So here is the final resolve. My problem must have been 2 fold. First off, there must have been something wrong with the alternator because after rebuilding the alternator the tractor shut off fine. Yet after further inspection, the battery was not charging. I started tracing wires back from the dash cluster and fond a burnt connection on the lower right quick connect cluster. When I disconnected them, that prong was melted around it and the prong broke in half. I didn't really want to buy a new 100 dollar wiring harness at the moment so I cut the wire from both end and connected them directly. Tractor cranked, turned off correctly, and the battery is charging. This tractor has been a learning experience. This is my first mechanical break down and I drank a many beer scratching my head or swearing, but at the end of the day it has finally come together!
Thanks again.

Eugene
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Re: 184 will not shut off with key

Postby Eugene » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Justbarf wrote:Update: I received my rebuild kit yesterday and rebuilt the alternator with all new components. The Tractor shuts off perfect now. I assume maybe one of the components in the alternator was fused together causing some type of voltage feedback!
Nope, not the problem.

I use to rebuild alternators for vehicles. Now it's cheaper to purchase a rebuilt alternator, with warranty, than to purchase parts.
Justbarf wrote:Hopefully final update!!!!! Yet after further inspection, the battery was not charging. I started tracing wires and found a burnt connection on the lower right quick connect cluster. I cut the wire from both end and connected them directly. Tractor cranked, turned off correctly, and the battery is charging.
Initial cause of your problem.
I have an excuse. CRS.


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