184 Burning oil

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ford141
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Tractors Owned: International 184

184 Burning oil

Postby ford141 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:50 am

I have a 184 that I got from a friend. It has led a very hard life and I'm slowly repairing and restoring it while also using it around my property.

When i got it the motor was bad, including the crank which had badly worn journals on every bearing. Rather than spending the time and money to rebuild, I found a good running 154 with a bad transmission and swapped the motor into my 184. Supposedly the 154 engine was rebuild with not many hours on it, and a quick inspection of the bearings showed very little wear. After installing the engine and getting it running, I found that it starts to smoke after it gets warmed up. It also consumes a fair amount of oil. I've also noticed that it smokes out of the breather when I'm mowing with it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZDr6J3iqiYJsTDfD6

Thinking the rings were shot, I pulled it in the shop and ran a compression check. It tested 125psi on 2 cylinders and 130 on the other 2. That seems to be pretty good since the manual specs 130psi. So why am I still burning so much oil?

Could this oil consumption and breather smoke be caused by worn valve guides?
Last edited by ford141 on Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Eugene
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby Eugene » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:30 am

Check the oil level in the crankcase. Check the amount of hydraulic fluid in the differential. Could be a leaking hydraulic pump leaking oil into the crankcase.

Valve in block. Valve guides, not suspect for a high level of engine oil consumption.

If hydraulic pump not leaking, add Seafoam to engine oil and fuel. Several applications. Work engine hard.

Bottom of suspect list, piston oil control rings improperly installed.

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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:49 pm

I once had a 63 Chevy pickup that had good compression but would burn oil like crazy, and talked to 2 different mechanics before I found an old timer tht was familiar with that model and told me the good compression was because the rings were bad and enough oil was up in them to give it a good seal AT CRANKING SPEEDS. sURE ENOUGH, WHEN i TORE INTO IT MANY OF THE RINGS WERE BROKEN. dang caps lock!!!! I have never seen broken rings in a cub, but I have seen rings gapped too wide, rings that never seated properly, even one that was overhauled and new rings put in when it should have been bored (the 49 I bought).

As Eugene stated valve guides in a cub have very little to do with oil consumption since it is a flat head, and the only oil that gets to the valve stems is what is thrown up on them from below for lubrication.
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ford141
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby ford141 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:16 pm

Well, I'm kinda bummed my pictures didn't show up, not sure why.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I have run it all summer like this and it is definitely consuming oil, not adding oil to the crankcase. Hydraulic levels have been good, so I guess the rings are suspect. I've already begun to teardown for inspection, head and pan are coming off next. We'll see what the rings look like.

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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby outdoors4evr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:01 pm

It doesn't take a large gap in the rings to start seeing compression gasses showing up in the crankcase. I hand filed each of my compression rings upon installation to get the best fit possible. I doubt anyone ever gets to a place where the crankcase breather doesn't move any air (or oil) but even slightly worn rings start the fogging.
You mentioned "Burning" Oil. Are your spark plugs showing signs of oil getting past the rings and burning in the combustion chamber?
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ford141
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby ford141 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:54 pm

Yes, the plugs are pretty black. Not fouled and not covered in deposits, but they are black. The most notable issue is the haze of blue smoke, especially when warm. And the obvious oil consumption. It does leak a small amount from the rear main (even though it's new) but doesn't leak anywhere else. I've probably went through 2-3 quarts of oil over the course of the summer.

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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby Gary Dotson » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:39 am

On John's comment about worn rings holding oil and showing abnormally high compression readings, absolutely true! I've seen this numerous times, it can really fool you.

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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby ricky racer » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:57 am

Many engines are "overhauled" but just rerung because they don't want to pay for a bore job or pistons. When you're dealing with a 50-60 year old tractor, chances are pretty good it'll need a fresh bore to properly complete an overhaul.
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:42 am

So it sounds like you have both oil being burned and compressed gasses getting into the crankcase. My 184 didn't go through one quart of oil during the mowing season.
This engine at least needs rings (and should be measured to see if it needs bored).

Given that, would it be best to do the machine work on the original 184 block? The crank can be moved.
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ford141
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby ford141 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:48 am

outdoors4evr wrote:So it sounds like you have both oil being burned and compressed gasses getting into the crankcase. My 184 didn't go through one quart of oil during the mowing season.
This engine at least needs rings (and should be measured to see if it needs bored).

Given that, would it be best to do the machine work on the original 184 block? The crank can be moved.


I will be pulling the head off probably later this week (got some other jobs to tackle first), but if it does need a bore I will use the original 184 block, get all of the machine work done, size the rings, and then just pull the crank from the 154 engine and swap. The 154 crank has already been drilled to clear the pilot shaft. The original 184 crank is in very poor condition. The 184 block does need to be bored, but it is standard size as of now. Hope to have an update later this week. Thanks for the help guys.
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ford141
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby ford141 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:01 pm

So, I pulled the head off today. Measurements-
Cylinder bore- 2.626”- within specific
Piston diameter- 2.623”- within spec
Ring end gap- 0.028”- within spec
No scoring on pistons or walls. Rings are free and aren’t stuck, seem to have good tension in the cylinder. No broken rings. Remember compression was 125-130psi on all cylinders. To be honest the bores and pistons/ rings look new. Not even a lip on the top of the bore.

But- the valves are remarkably loose in the guides. I can visibly move them .020-.030” side to side. Clearance spec is .001-.003. Given how loose the valves are, does it now seem possible this is the source of my oil consumption????

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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:27 pm

Make sure the ring gaps are staggered on each piston, but that is a tremendous amount of sideways play in valve/ guide combinations. I cannot imagine that from being wear, it makes me think that either the valves or guides are the wrong ones. AS to it being the problem, it would seem it must, but I have never actually seen that much gap.
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby Eugene » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:48 pm

ford141 wrote:Ring end gap- 0.028”- within spec.
.007 - .017 per GSS-1408, Service Manual.
The valves are remarkably loose in the guides. I can visibly move them .020-.030” side to side. Clearance spec is .001-.003.
The spec clearance is taken during the valve guide bore measurement.
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ford141
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Re: 184 Burning oil

Postby ford141 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:05 pm

Eugene wrote:
ford141 wrote:Ring end gap- 0.028”- within spec.
.007 - .017 per GSS-1408, Service Manual.
The valves are remarkably loose in the guides. I can visibly move them .020-.030” side to side. Clearance spec is .001-.003.
The spec clearance is taken during the valve guide bore measurement.


My bad. You are correct, the manual does specify 0.007-0.017. I don’t know why but the first time I looked I thought it said .020-.038. I must have been looking at the wrong line. Then definitely my ring end gap is well out of spec. I’ll hone and rering.


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