184 no start condition

[Jackel440]

Ok,looking for some ideas.
I have a 184 Lo boy that I bought at the end of last summer. I have been slowly reworking parts of it over the winter. I started it up 3 days ago and it ran well like normal. I decided to put new plug wires and cap on it. The old wires were bare and rotten.(They had IH boots on them.)
So we put the new cap and wires on. And went to start it and it backfired. We figured out that when #1 was on tdc the rotor was pointing to the next tower to the left of the #1 tower on the cap. I thought that the old wires looked like they weren't in the right spot when I took them off. So I moved the wires over one spot.
That stopped most of the backfiring,but still won't start.
I put a timing light on #1 and adjusted the distributor to fire at tdc. Still won't start.
So I didn't like how the new cap fit. So I put the old one back on and it actually improved the chances of it wanting to try to start.
She still won't start and run.
I have spark, compression and fuel.
I have thought to nxt pull the carb and check it over. But it still wouldn't take off with starting fluid either.
Just aggravating to just change plug wires and now it won't run.

[staninlowerAL]

If it was running and all you did was change plug wires (nothing else removed or replaced) recheck the plug wires order 1, 3, 4, 2 and make sure that #1 piston is at tdc on the compression stroke when the rotor is at #1 plug wire tower.

[Jim Becker]

Don't touch anything in the fuel system, other than to turn the gas on. It was running until you touched the spark plug wires and cap. The problem virtually has to be in the cap and wires. Now that you have changed the timing, you may have two problems, 1) the cap and wire problem, and 2) the timing could be wrong. You may need to fix them both before it will fire again. Don't fix anything else until it either runs or you have thoroughly convinced yourself that the failure to start was just a coincidence when you worked on the ignition system.

Of course, by now you may have it so overloaded with gas from trying to start it that you will need to pull and clean the spark plugs before it will fire.

[Jackel440]

I'm going to clean the plugs in the morning and see what happens.

[Jackel440]

Well I ended up pulling the carb and cleaning it. The inlet screened was plugged. I got it all back together and finally got it to start. I had to keep cranking it to get it to take off and run.
So I finished putting it back together to take it out and try to mow. Cranked and choked and it finally started. Drove it outside and it would sputter a little when you let out on the clutch. As soon as i turned on the deck it starts chugging and popping and will die. She just has no power at all. I'm beginning to think that I have a stuck valve.

[Jackel440]

https://youtu.be/4Rd3CTL7fkI
Here's a video of it trying to run. You can here it missing out and losing power.

[Jackel440]

I was told to try a new condenser. Just pit it in and no dice. Time to do the compression check I guess

[gitractorman]

I'm with Jim here. Your issue is still timing. You found the fuel issue just because you looked for it, but I'd bet that really wasn't your problem. Please double check that you have the #1 piston at TDC on the compression stroke, then re-set your timing. It's real easy to have it at TDC during the exhaust stroke, which basically sets your timing 1/2 step off, and pretty much sounds exactly like the way yours is running. Remember, in a 4 stroke engine the piston comes to TDC 4 times for every 1 firing of the cylinder, so you really have to follow the instructions to a T to make sure you have it at TDC on the compression (firing) stroke.

Believe it or not, these tractors will actually run on only 2 or 3 cylinders, and they will perform, but not have much power, which is what yours really sounds like.

Bill

[Jackel440]

I'm with Jim here. Your issue is still timing. You found the fuel issue just because you looked for it, but I'd bet that really wasn't your problem. Please double check that you have the #1 piston at TDC on the compression stroke, then re-set your timing. It's real easy to have it at TDC during the exhaust stroke, which basically sets your timing 1/2 step off, and pretty much sounds exactly like the way yours is running. Remember, in a 4 stroke engine the piston comes to TDC 4 times for every 1 firing of the cylinder, so you really have to follow the instructions to a T to make sure you have it at TDC on the compression (firing) stroke.

Believe it or not, these tractors will actually run on only 2 or 3 cylinders, and they will perform, but not have much power, which is what yours really sounds like.

Bill

I won't disagree with you I still feel it's a timing issue and I did find these other issues.
I did bring number 1 up on the compression stroke. I then actually used a wire to double check the piston movement through the plug hole. I did that to verify that the pulley and pointer were correct as that's when I found the distributor was clocked wrong.
I did run a compression check and here's the results.
#1 80lbs
#2 110
#3 120
#4 120
The piston is only at tdc twice during the cycle.1st stroke is intake to bdc.2nd stroke is up to tdc for compression. 3rd stroke Is to bdc for power stroke. 4th is back to tdc on the exhaust stroke.then it all repeats again.
I will have to put some oil in the cylinder tomorrow and see if compression comes up any to check for a bad ring. Ran out of time tonight.
Looking like I'm might have to crack her open

[Landreo]

Remember, in a 4 stroke engine the piston comes to TDC 4 times for every 1 firing of the cylinder, so you really have to follow the instructions to a T to make sure you have it at TDC on the compression (firing) stroke.
Bill

TDC every rotation of the crank so 2 per firing cycle. If the timing is off 360 degrees then the engine will fire on the exhaust stroke and will not run at all. A possible exception would be a wasted spark system which the cub does not have.


Since you did not change the timing I don't think you have a timing issue in the sense of degrees before TDC. You did change the cap and wires and did rotate the position of the wires on the cap. Did you double check the firing order of the wires? Easy to get wrong and if two are switched the it will run but no power. I would double check the firing order from the cap to each plug. With the engine running short or pull off the plug wire on each spark plug and listen for a rpm change. That will tell you which cylinder is involved if any. From then on it may be a bad wire, bad new plug, or something internal.

It may be time to go back to basics and start checking timing, spark, firing order, fuel flow, etc.

[Brianleibo]

If I remember correctly the new spark wires have to be a special kind not just any. If I’m right put your old wires back on and if it runs get new correct ones.

[Greg Armstrong]

If I remember correctly the new spark wires have to be a special kind not just any. If I’m right put your old wires back on and if it runs get new correct ones.

I'm fairly certain that would only apply if he had a high voltage coil. Since the wires were original, replacing them with standard copper core wires should be fine. Firing order and timing is where I would focus.

[Larry B]

Here are things to help troubleshoot the ignition system.
First get new plugs. Doesn't matter the heat range. D15. D16. D18 or D21. New plugs are a must.

Check and gap points to .020. Now turn the key on and bump starter till the points are closed. Use a multimeter to measure voltage from the stud on the side of the distributor with the wire to the coil to the metal body of the distributor. Should be .2 volts or less. This measures voltage drop across the points. Anythimg more than .3 volts is a problem.
With the dist cap off and the points closed and the key on connect the coil wire to the coil tower and position the other end1/4" from ground. Use something no. Conductive to open the points. You should get a blue spark. If so the the ignition system has enough energy to run the engine.
Static time the engine. Remove the spark plugs and use a ratchet on the front engine pulley bolt to turn the engine. Turn the engine till no.1 cylinder is coming up on compression. There are 2 marks on the pulley. The first will be for setting the advance the second is TDC. Stop at TDC and do not turn engine backwards. You want the gear backlash biased in the forward direction.
Loosen the 2 dist hold down clamp bolts. Connect a spark plug wire to the coil tower and spark plug and lay the spark plug on the engine so it is grounded. Looking at the top of the dist rotate it slightly CCW then CW till the points open and the plug fires. Should not take much turning. When plug fires stop and tighten dist hold down bolts.
Install plugs cap and wires. Firing order is clockwise. Any plug wires will work. Solid or carbon core. With engine at TDC the rotor button sbould be pointing to one if the dist cap towers. That is the no1 plug.

[Jackel440]

Here are things to help troubleshoot the ignition system.
First get new plugs. Doesn't matter the heat range. D15. D16. D18 or D21. New plugs are a must.

Check and gap points to .020. Now turn the key on and bump starter till the points are closed. Use a multimeter to measure voltage from the stud on the side of the distributor with the wire to the coil to the metal body of the distributor. Should be .2 volts or less. This measures voltage drop across the points. Anythimg more than .3 volts is a problem.
With the dist cap off and the points closed and the key on connect the coil wire to the coil tower and position the other end1/4" from ground. Use something no. Conductive to open the points. You should get a blue spark. If so the the ignition system has enough energy to run the engine.
Static time the engine. Remove the spark plugs and use a ratchet on the front engine pulley bolt to turn the engine. Turn the engine till no.1 cylinder is coming up on compression. There are 2 marks on the pulley. The first will be for setting the advance the second is TDC. Stop at TDC and do not turn engine backwards. You want the gear backlash biased in the forward direction.
Loosen the 2 dist hold down clamp bolts. Connect a spark plug wire to the coil tower and spark plug and lay the spark plug on the engine so it is grounded. Looking at the top of the dist rotate it slightly CCW then CW till the points open and the plug fires. Should not take much turning. When plug fires stop and tighten dist hold down bolts.
Install plugs cap and wires. Firing order is clockwise. Any plug wires will work. Solid or carbon core. With engine at TDC the rotor button sbould be pointing to one if the dist cap towers. That is the no1 plug.

Larry, you sir are my hero. I figured out what the problem was. My apologies if someone else's posted it but when I read your post I had a "light bulb" moment
I for some reason had the firing order correct but had put the wires on for counter clock wise rotation! Biggest idiot move I've had in a long time. I kept checking it and checking it and it was right. Just on backwards. For some reason I had it set in my head the rotation was counter clockwise.
So I went out and checked the cap and sure enough that's what I had done. Sometimes you just can't see the forest because of the trees I guess. What a silly rookie mistake that I haven't made in years.
So after fixing that she fired right up and was ready to go.
Now I still will have to pull the engine and fix that rear seal as my deck has a pool of oil from when I tried it out. Thanks again for everyone's wonderful help!