104 hydro

IHC Cub Cadet Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cadet related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

104 hydro

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:12 pm

I stopped and looked at a cadet 104. It was sprayed bombed but it looked really good and ran good. The owner said he replaced all the seals and changed the fluids. He said it has a 44" deck. I didn't know how to tell for sure. My question is when I was going forward or in reverse and stepped on the pedal the shifter went back to netural but it would go from forward or reverse to netural pretty hard. I wasn't rolling fast in either direction when I stepped on the pedal. I know it shouldn't roll to a stop but should it stop all most whiplash like? He wants 800$ for it and a cub 100 both with 44" decks and they run good. For $1100 he'll throw in a lift. Any thoughts?
1ST corinthians 1:18
Slickwilly1976
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.
Zip Code: 30740
Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT

Re: 104 hydro

Postby dgrapes59 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:30 pm

A Cub Cadet 104 would not be a hydro, it would be a gear drive (basically the same transmission as the Cub), by your concerns it is obviously a hydro unit, possibly a replacement hood or decals. Don't know about hydro's I am a "gear drive guy", but I am sure someone can answer your question.
Price wise, always a tricky question; condition, model, location, options, tire condition, etc., but for an average price on a base unit it sounds high to me. If they have lights, rear weights, fenders on the 100, hitch, etc. all add to the value then $800 for the two would be reasonable. Pictures always help.

Good luck,
David
User avatar
dgrapes59
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2682
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:05 pm
Location: OH, Liberty Township (45044) (southwest OH)
Zip Code: 45044
Tractors Owned: 1951 Cub
1955 Loboy
a few plows, mowers, blades & such
Several '61 CC Originals, CC Narrow Frames- 70 & 100's, 71, Couple 102's & 122's, 72, 124, 73, various CC options & implements #2 Trailer, 1963 Springfield
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:41 pm

It had original decals you could tell. It may have a different hood. It had square fenders wide back tires and a 12hp motor. I don't know what it is you have me wondering now. Around here they go for about 700 to 800 for a decent ONE on Craig's list.
1ST corinthians 1:18
Slickwilly1976
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.
Zip Code: 30740
Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT

Re: 104 hydro

Postby dgrapes59 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:03 am

Slickwilly1976 wrote:It had original decals you could tell. It may have a different hood. It had square fenders wide back tires and a 12hp motor. I don't know what it is you have me wondering now. Around here they go for about 700 to 800 for a decent ONE on Craig's list.


It sounds like the hood was replaced as a 104 would have also been a 10 hp. (The first 10 hp hydro was in this series, a 105). Is the engine yellow or black, could be a replacement engine, easy telltale is if it is black if it hasn't been repainted. Could be a combination of several models / years as, like its bigger brother the Cub, many parts are interchangeable! (Again, a picture would help) Square fenders would have been standard on those models (round fenders were an option on the 70/100's, 71, 72 & 73's)

The best check on pricing is if the seller and the buyer are happy with the transaction, if it is reasonable in your area then go for it! :big afro:
David
User avatar
dgrapes59
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2682
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:05 pm
Location: OH, Liberty Township (45044) (southwest OH)
Zip Code: 45044
Tractors Owned: 1951 Cub
1955 Loboy
a few plows, mowers, blades & such
Several '61 CC Originals, CC Narrow Frames- 70 & 100's, 71, Couple 102's & 122's, 72, 124, 73, various CC options & implements #2 Trailer, 1963 Springfield
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:30 am

I'm about 99% sure the motor was yellow and it looked period correct. I probably was a 10hp and the owner doesn't know the difference. I could be wrong since it does have a different hood. I'm just concerned about the stopping do hard. I dont know if this is normal or not. My model 70 is manual. I dont think the lift is worth $300 I dont have any equipment for it any way. equipment for the cadets around here is kind of scarce. I would like to have one with the pto in the back and a tiller. I may settle for the 104/105 or what ever it is if I find out about the stopping hard.
1ST corinthians 1:18
Slickwilly1976
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.
Zip Code: 30740
Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Smokeycub » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:34 am

Hi - A 104 is a 10hp manual trans, a 105 is a 10hp hydro. Tractordata.com has a couple pictures of a 104 and a 107, but not a 105. Maybe that will help. I put a couple pics of my 107.
CIMG1261.JPG
CIMG1261.JPG (260.37 KiB) Viewed 380 times

CIMG1264.JPG
CIMG1264.JPG (321.26 KiB) Viewed 380 times


The 104 looks pretty much the same except square fenders and a flat hood, not sure about the 105.
Ray
Smokeycub
Attachments - 193 plow - 144 cultivator - 22 mower - 28A disc harrow - 54 leveling blade - Woods 59C2 - drag harrows - Mott D9 flail
Smokeycub
501 Club
501 Club
 
Posts: 598
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:47 am
Location: Ravenna, Ohio
Zip Code: 44266
Tractors Owned: 49 F Cub
65 Cub Cadet 104
70 450C JD
67 Cub Cadet 107
90 B7100HST-D Kubota
72 Cub Cadet 149
54 Super C
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:44 am

I bet its a 105 with a 104 hood
1ST corinthians 1:18
Slickwilly1976
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.
Zip Code: 30740
Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Eugene » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:02 am

Slickwilly1976 wrote:My question is when I was going forward or in reverse and stepped on the pedal the shifter went back to netural
It's suppose to do that.

but it would go from forward or reverse to netural pretty hard. I wasn't rolling fast in either direction when I stepped on the pedal. I know it shouldn't roll to a stop but should it stop all most whiplash like?
Ground speed, also stopping, is controlled by the shift lever on the dash. The brake is so so. If you were expecting to get slammed into the steering wheel when stepping on the brake pedal, not.

but it would go from forward or reverse to netural pretty hard.
Foot off the brake pedal when moving the shift lever.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12506
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:21 am

It stops or goes to neutral pretty hard when you mash the pedal. I just did want to get it and be in the middle of mowing and shift it and something broke because someone and had adjusted it improperly.
1ST corinthians 1:18
Slickwilly1976
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.
Zip Code: 30740
Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT

Re: 104 hydro

Postby gitractorman » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:41 pm

You SHOULD NOT use the brake pedal to move the hydro lever on ANY hydro drive tractor. All that the brake pedal is meant for on a hydro is for a parking brake. It is not meant to move the lever, the linkage is only meant to hold the lever in the neutral position, which is why it moves so abruptly and difficultly when you stomp on the brake lever. Doing so is a really good way to tear up your hydro linkage.

105 and 125 tractors were hydro, 10hp and 12hp, in the same series as the 104 and 124 gear drive 10hp and 12hp tractors. I wouldnt be suprised if someone just put the wrong decals on it. There is not other way to tell them apart.
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2077
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:56 pm

The owner told me to push the pedal to stop it and to put it back in neutral. That's the first one I've driven. So if your mowing or what ever do you put it neutral to stop it? I dont know if I'm going to buy it or not. I skimmed over the manual. Are they as reliable as the gear driven?
1ST corinthians 1:18
Slickwilly1976
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.
Zip Code: 30740
Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT

Re: 104 hydro

Postby gitractorman » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:08 am

When you're mowing (or operating the tractor in general) you just use the lever to come to a stop. Pushing the brake pedal really causes a TON of unnecessary wear to all the hydro linkage, and it was really never designed to be operated that way. When the tractor is running, the drive system is hydraulically locked. What this means, is when the engine is running, and the hydraulic pump is operating, neutral is a "braked" position. So, if you were operating on a hill, moving forward, but then needed to stop and everse, when you move the directional lever from forward to neutral, the tractor will still come to a stop, and NOT just start rollling, because the tractor is hydraulically locked. Then when you move the directional lever to reverse, you will back up. Back to neutral, it will stop again, regardless of the incline or gravity, and so on.

All hydrostatic drive tractors are hydraulically locked in this way (if they are operating correctly). Again, no need for the brake pedal at all during operation, it is only a parking brake because when the engine is off, most hydraulic systems "dump" pressure, and allow the tractor to roll. So, a parking brake becomes important on a hydrostatic drive tractor, to keep it from rolling around when it's parked because you cannot drop it into a gear lik you can a gear driven tractor.

I can tell you from experience that once you get used to hydrostaic drive tractors, you'll HATE gear driven equipment! Hydrostaics are great for every circumstance especially mowing, plowing, tilling, where you may be able to speed up under light load, then slow down your ground speed as the load increases on the machine. Also, NO CLUTCHING, EVER!!!!! I've owned them all, and I'll only mow with hydrostatic equipment. Gear drives are always either going too fast or too slow. I like my Cub and older Cadet gear drives just for putting around the yard, but when I want to really get work done, I'll jump on something hydrostaic drive.

Then, once you get used to a tractor with foot-controlled hydrostaic drive, you'll never go back to a tractor with the lever controlled hydro. Foot controlls were the best adaptation of hydrostic drive ever! You never have to take your hands off the steering wheel. Add on a front end loader like on my Simplicity Legacy, and you can have one hand on the steering wheel, one hand on the loader joystick, then foot controlled ground speed, and everything is totally seamless! No stopping, pausing, switching hand positions around, etc.
1951 Farmall Cub, Cub Cadets 102, 104, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller
User avatar
gitractorman
5+ Years
5+ Years
 
Posts: 2077
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am
Location: Grand Island, NY
Zip Code: 14072
eBay ID: toysforjake
Tractors Owned: Lots of Cub Cadets!
1951 Farmall Cub
1977 IH Cub
1966 IH Cub
1965 IH Lo Boy
1949 Farmall Cub
Several IH 154 Lo Boys
1979 IH 184 Lo Boy
Simplicity 4416 Sovereign
Simplicity Conquest
Simplicity Legacy 4x4 Diesel
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 104 hydro

Postby SundaySailor » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:40 am

SlickWilly, the hydrostat transmissions found in the early Cub Cadets I think were the Peerless ones. Pretty much the same as in the same years for the older John Deere garden tractors.

There were only so many manufacturers of engines, transmissions, etc. back then.

Those transmissions have been called "bullet-proof" many a time, and with good reason. I have a 1988 JD 322 with a peerless hydro. I've taken my attention off what I was doing when riding it, and buried the stinking thing up to the rear axles without even thinking about it!

On the Cub Cadets, I remember reading there is some kind of "swash" plate with a spring in it that has to do with the forward/reverse. It wears some and may cause the tractor to exhibit the symptoms you speak of.

Many people have removed that plate and had it welded to bring it back to the closer tolerances it once had from the factory. It apparently wasn't all that a big of a deal to repair.

On toughness, if those tractors can be hitched to a one bottom plow and plow all day long and not skip a beat, I'd bet they're pretty darn good.
Though trillions and trillions of eyes have been watching the skies for as long as human memory exists, no gods nor angels have been seen or documented outside of religion. The number of spaceships being sighted however has become much more prevalent.
SundaySailor
10+ Years
10+ Years
 
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:45 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1950 Cub
2000 Simplicity Landlord DLX
1988 JD 322 Garden Tractor with hydraulic scoop, 54" scrape blade and 48" mower deck, Haban 3 pt hitch sickle bar mower

Re: 104 hydro

Postby SundaySailor » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:06 am

Correction: The earlier Cub cadets may have had a Sundstrand (sp?) transmission whilst the JD's were Peerless/Tecumseh. Both were very hardy and robust hydro transmissions.
Though trillions and trillions of eyes have been watching the skies for as long as human memory exists, no gods nor angels have been seen or documented outside of religion. The number of spaceships being sighted however has become much more prevalent.
SundaySailor
10+ Years
10+ Years
 
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:45 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1950 Cub
2000 Simplicity Landlord DLX
1988 JD 322 Garden Tractor with hydraulic scoop, 54" scrape blade and 48" mower deck, Haban 3 pt hitch sickle bar mower

Re: 104 hydro

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:52 am

thanks fellows for the info
1ST corinthians 1:18
Slickwilly1976
Cub Star
Cub Star
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.
Zip Code: 30740
Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT

Next

Return to Cub Cadet Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests