Is it the carb?

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Slickwilly1976
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Is it the carb?

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Thu May 30, 2013 9:45 pm

I have a model 70( kohler k161 )
My problem is it will run really good for about 30 min. then it starts losing power and dyes like its out of gas.
I can sometimes pull the chocke real fast the power will come back and it will run another 10 to 15 seconds and dye. I can It will start back up great run 30 secs or so and dye again. I can hear a slight popping/back fire sound that sounds like its coming from the carb.
It was just serviced right before I bought it. It was running great and then with out warning it starting acting up.
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Smokeycub » Fri May 31, 2013 8:11 am

Could be a carb problem, it could also be an electrical issue. A bad coil (or one going bad) will sometimes run great until it's warmed up then start acting up, an internal open circuit, cools down and it runs ok for a while. I've had condensers go bad too but usually the motor will just run really bad but not quit completely. If it's a fuel problem (kinda doubt it) could be sediment in the fuel bowl or an intermittent clog somewhere like the needle and seat or a bad float. If it were a bad float though it would probably flood rather than be starving for fuel. Just my opinion. I would check the points gap and see if they're burnt, check the spark plug, then crank it over with the plug out and grounded to check the spark if possible while its still warm. Good luck and let us know what turns out to be the problem.
Ray
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Eugene » Fri May 31, 2013 8:13 am

If after engine sits over night and has completely cooled off, runs good for 30 minutes then dies. It's an ignition problem, coil breaking down. Once engine dies, check for spark quality.

Fuel flow problem will usually show up in a minute or two after engine starts.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Slickwilly1976
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Fri May 31, 2013 8:39 am

I'll check that out. If it is a carb. problem do either of you know a good place to get a kit? I called a dealer and they said they might could get me a kit with the spec numbers but they didn't know. I guess I will need to go home and try to find them.
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Eugene » Fri May 31, 2013 9:34 am

Slickwilly1976 wrote:If it is a carb. problem do either of you know a good place to get a kit?
Your favorite auto parts store. They will probably have the kit in stock since the same carburetor kit fits virtually all of the older Kohler engines.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Slickwilly1976
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Fri May 31, 2013 12:06 pm

I'll try to find the spec numbers and try that. I have a orileys about 12 miles from the house.
The cub dealer didn't have a clue and if he could get one he would have to order it. He had 400 spec numbers in his book and no idea what to order. I didn't realize the spec numbers made a difference I thought they were all the same for the k161 I guess you learn something every day.
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Eugene
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Eugene » Fri May 31, 2013 1:23 pm

7-02024. NAPA or Federated part number for Kohlers with Carter "N" carburetors. Might be an old parts number. But your auto parts store will be able to look up the carburetor kit number in their books from your engine model number. No need for engine specification numbers.

While in the auto parts store, ask if they can obtain Kohler engine parts.
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Smokeycub » Fri May 31, 2013 2:30 pm

Your Cub Cadet dealer must be a MTD only place rather than an old Case/IH dealer that sells MTD or CCC Cadets. Napa is a good source for that sort of thing, their web site has a cross reference feature that's real helpful if you have a part number to cross. Like Eugene said they shouldn't really need the serial number but you can get it off the engine, it's listed on the ID plate on your K161.

Anyhow, I don't think you have a carb issue. When they stop running like yours did lots of strange things happen all at once, not necessarily symptom specific, like spitting and sputtering out the carb when it's usually something like a coil that's the culprit.
Ray
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby gitractorman » Fri May 31, 2013 3:06 pm

Check the gas cap to make sure the vent hole is not plugged. Also check the fuel flow to the carburetor, especially if someone has installed an in-line fuel filter. Next, check the carb/manifold gasket to make sure the bolts are tight and the gasket is good.

Another thing that Kohler engines are really well know for is the exhaust valve corroding and sticking when the engine gets hot. Really common problem especially with the older K series engines, but yours sounds more fuel related. When an exhaust valve sticks, you pretty much have to let the engine cool before it will start again.

You might try getting it running, a little over mid throttle, then repeatedly spray or squirt Sea Foam to the carb air intake to the point it almost wants to die, back off, then keep spraying. Do this for several minutes. The thing will smoke white like crazy, make sure to do it outside, but I've fixed a lot of similar sounding problems with Kohler engines just by doing this.
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Slickwilly1976
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Fri May 31, 2013 7:44 pm

I'm a big fan of sea foam.
I had the same idea I just back with a can of it.
I checked the gap on the points and someone set them on 18. I have to check but I believe they need to be on 20.
I'm going to do a electrical over haul if I can find the parts local. I tried orielys and a cub dealer with no luck. I may have to order the coil and condenser.
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Eugene
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Eugene » Fri May 31, 2013 8:39 pm

Slickwilly1976 wrote:I'm going to do a electrical over haul if I can find the parts local. I tried orielys and a cub dealer with no luck. I may have to order the coil and condenser.
OK. You may want to try an auto parts store such as NAPA or Federated with an old guy behind the counter instead of the pimply faced kid at O'Reillys.

The part number is:
Points: 7-01029
Condenser: 7-01338
Coil: 7-01634
I have an excuse. CRS.

Slickwilly1976
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Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.

Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:33 pm

Would you believe we don't have a napa anymore. They went out years ago here but I found one at a lawn mower shop. He didn't have a coil or points but said he would try to get them.
Thanks for those part numbers that is a huge help.
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Eugene
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Eugene » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:32 pm

Federated Auto Parts is a huge chain, but the local auto parts stores usually operate under a different name.

There are two Federated auto parts stores in Dalton, Ga. operated under the name of "Auto Parts Company". The part numbers I provided earlier should be good at either of those stores.

The local Federated auto parts stores operate under the name "American Auto". Normally the stores have Kohler ignition parts hanging on the wall. If not in store, available in next day shipment.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Slickwilly1976
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 7:50 pm
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Tractors Owned: Cub lo boy 185
Cub cadet model 70
Gravely Z52
kubota L1500DT
Location: Rocky Face/Villanow Ga.

Re: Is it the carb?

Postby Slickwilly1976 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:01 pm

Why didn't I ask if anyone knew where to get these parts before? Lol
I wasted 1/2 a day looking for parts to no avail. I never thought about asking for parts help.
Man I'm glad I found this site and so thankful for all the help.
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Re: Is it the carb?

Postby sirputtsalot » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:04 am

slickwilly a short while back i was have-n the same type problems at one point the carb was spewing gas back out ,took it apart looked for crumbs checked float/jets/ect nothing? then checked spark no spark while engine was crank-n (hum i said)first thought try a good plug still no spark 2nd thought checked voltage reg-contacts they where a little carbon'd up scraped clean,and while i was at it checked points they 2 was carbon'd plus gap was off, reset to 20 and walah spark. At one point in time i had checked the coil with another coil from a IH school bus (12volt)a couple of years before this seemed to fix the problem back then but then i let it sit idle for a winter and the problems arose again turns out all the corrosion on the reg/points was the culprit the coil from the buss was still workin fine,the gas had to go somewhere without no spark


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