Cub Cadet engine noise

[Philo]

I have had a CC 1450 for about 10 years now (bought it used). I change the oil based on usage but at least every year. I also change the hydro filter every two years and always keep the fluid 'full'. I suspect the engine mounts are getting worn, but that does not seem to be the problem: If I am using it to pull my utility trailer, loaded or not, it runs fine. When mowing, however, it runs fine, but when I am nearing completion of the lawn, which is less than an acre, it starts making a tapping noise that sounds like a rod bearing to me. If I put pressure on the side of the engine with my hand, it does not change the noise (I'm thinking this would eliminate the engine mounts as the problem). The screen is clear, but I have not taken the engine shrouding off to see if I have a buildup of grass around the cooling fins. If I look into the shrouding at the spark plug opening, I don't see any debris. I have not been using it since I noticed the tapping sound. Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks for any comments.

[Leadfoot]

I would say it's rebuild time.........or at least a good 'freshening'......

I have a 1450 also,...a 1978 model, and last fall the engine in mine started 'ticking' when it had been used for a while. To be on the safe side, I pulled the engine, and had it rebuilt....as the engine rebuilder was going about the task, they found the wrist pin was loose.

A lot of people will say 'it's the balance gears'...but my K321AQS didn't have any in it from the factory.

Total cost for the complete rebuild...turn crank .010 under, bore the cylinder wall .010 over, new rod, new piston and rings, new valve guides, new valves, full gasket set, and rebuild the carb was right at $600.

[Philo]

I would say it's rebuild time.........or at least a good 'freshening'......

I have a 1450 also,...a 1978 model, and last fall the engine in mine started 'ticking' when it had been used for a while. To be on the safe side, I pulled the engine, and had it rebuilt....as the engine rebuilder was going about the task, they found the wrist pin was loose.

A lot of people will say 'it's the balance gears'...but my K321AQS didn't have any in it from the factory.

Total cost for the complete rebuild...turn crank .010 under, bore the cylinder wall .010 over, new rod, new piston and rings, new valve guides, new valves, full gasket set, and rebuild the carb was right at $600.

Thanks for the reply, LF. The price for a rebuild is a chunk, but I looked up a new one on the 'net and it would be more than 2X the rebuild price. After a rebuild I should feel like I have a new HD unit again, since I have had '0' problems with the rest of the tractor.

I doesn't smoke, leak or use oil, so would it be reasonable to just fix what ever is found to be making the noise as long as everything else looks good?

[Leadfoot]

I doesn't smoke, leak or use oil, so would it be reasonable to just fix what ever is found to be making the noise as long as everything else looks good?

Sure!

Have a engine builder you trust go through the engine....check/measure the cylinder bore, for wear, out of round, taper etc, ...at least have the cylinder honed and use new compression rings, also inspect and measure the crank and the rod for wear and out of round.....it is very important that everything be within 'spec'. Have the valves ground, and lapped in. Also 'true' the cylinder head. While the engine is out, rebuild the carburator. I would also put in new points, and a new spark plug.

Some other fairly inexpensive items to consider are, do the engine cradle modification, install new ISO mounts and front 'snubbers', and put new flex couplings on the driveshaft.

With the freshened engine, and the ISO system up to snuff, you should ready for many more years of solid performance.

[Leadfoot]

Philo,

Here are pictures I took when we pulled the engine my 1450 last fall.....disregard the date in the 1450 photos...I didn't have it set correctly...


Here is all the parts we took off...


here is a pic. of the 'rail mod' in progress***if you are going to do the rail mod, let me know, and I'll send you a -great- picture with the measurements etc. to place it perfectly!***


and here is the engine cradle installed (mod completed)

Here is a couple of pictures of the rebuilt and repainted engine...just so you see what you will be dealing with..



and here is a couple of pictures of the rebuilt engine intalled...




And here are some pictures of when I pulled the engine in my 1250 for new ISO mounts...










And here is some pictures of the 'bottom' ISO mount rubbers...they are worn out!

[Harold R]

Thanks for posting those pics. I haven't torn into my 1450 yet as there seems to be no need to at this time. However, I have been snooping around. I had to replace a pin that was holding the mule drive on the front, where the latch is....and I noticed a bolt had backed out under the engine cradle. The front axle seems to be right under the slot for it. I managed to get an angled boxed end wrench on it but couldn't turn it.
What is the "rail mod" for???? I noticed a lot of vibaration at mid-throttle......smooth at idle and full power. Does the rail mod help that??
Still having fun with it! What a great mowing machine. Best $600 I've ever spent.

[Philo]

Thanks for the pictures! They will come in handy for me I am sure. I don't have the tools or desire to do a rebuild, but may pull the engine and send it out for rebuild, and do the engine mounts myself. The person I bought the tractor from works out of his garage and basement (for a long time) and does rebuilds. He only deals with older CC's (iron rear axle types). It was the second 1450 I bought from him.

I have another question - I would like to make a grass catcher device for the 1450 - I know they did not have them, but could one be rigged up that would work with the mower deck? I am assuming I would need a vacuum source to pull the grass up into the container.

[Ritter107]

Sure you can make a vac for use with the mower deck. Baggers generally use the centrifugal force of the blades to throw the grass into the hopper. Lawn vacs use a blower or to create the suction to move the grass, and often use a smaller engine of about 5HP to run it. I made my own lawn vac about four yrs back and it works great. The blower is not very complex... as it's basically jsut two paddles that whirl around at high speed to create suction. However... if you don't think you can build that safely, then don't do it. If that assmebly would come apart on you it would be deadly. You can however find those old peco lawn vacs for cub cadets and rebuild one to suit your needs. If you did that, then you wouldn't have to worry about making a blower. From there, it is a simple manner of connecting everything together and either running it to a trailer, or to a mount on the back of the tractor. If you'd like pics, PM me your e-mail and i can show you one that i built.

However... the simpler bagger setup may be easier to make and possibly the better choice. Depending on how handy you are.


Lawn vacs are a Godsend. Just FYI.

[Leadfoot]

HR:

If you have a lot of vibration, then there is a VERY good chance the ISO mounts are worn out, and need replaced.

The rail mod is done by adding/welding a piece of steel between the two individual engine mounting rails for the Quietline tractors (800, 1000, 1200, 1250, 1450, and 1650) Doing so adds stability to the engine, plus as time goes by (another 30 years from now) when the ISO mount rubbers wear, the engine won't 'drop' on the side with the worst rubbers, and wear a hole in the oil pan, rip out the mounting bolt threads, or put the driveline at a weird angle. With the rails as individual pieces, as the rubbers wear out, they fall through the holes in the engine rails, and put a huge strain on the aluminum oil pan engine mount bolt hole threads, also the engine mounting rails will wear grooves in the tractor frame, and sometimes wear holes in the sides of the oil pan. Adding the piece of steel makes the mounting set up more stable, and basically turns it into an engine 'cradle' I have been told that if you buy a new 'engine mount' for a Quietline from a Cub Cadet dealer, it comes with the two rails welded together...but the new pieces might not fit 'perfectly'.


This diagram created by Richard Christensen shows the measurements etc. Richard is a great source of knowledge on the QL series tractors


and here are more pics provided to me by Richard, that I used for refrence when doing my first 'rail mod'



NOTE: in this picture new 'snubbers' have been installed.


NOTE: in this picture the new ISO mounts have been installed when the cradle was bolted to the frame.

[Harold R]

Thanks Leadfoot. That mod looks like something I can handle. Those were excellent pictures. I'll have to tear into it because I don't like the viberation. The motor mount's look new, but there's no snubbers and I have a couple loose bolts under the cradle that are hard to get to.

[Leadfoot]

No problem

Richard is very thourough, he does all the research, test fits, installs/tests etc., then he shares what he has found works, and doesn't work.

I will make a very real suggestion...at a minimum, please get a chassis service manual for the/your 1450. It has all of the proper torques, adjustments, measurements, and sequences for the correct repair and maintenance of the entire tractor. They are an essential tool for making sure that the tractor is performing like it should, and they will help eliminate a lot of guesswork, and headaches

Also a parts manual for the tractor is really nice to have should you need new parts for the tractor.

[Harold R]

at a minimum, please get a chassis service manual for the/your 1450.

Would Binder Books be the place to get these???

[Leadfoot]

Yep!
http://www.binderbooks.com/ (just look in the list on the left side, and click on what you are wanting a manual for -Cub Cadet Tractors-, and it will take you to large listings of Owner/Operators manuals, Chassis Service manuals, Engine Service manuals, Parts manuals, Implement Operators manuals, and Implement Parts manuals).

All of my Quietline manuals came from Binder

Also, if there are any manuals you need for your Farmall/International Cubs, or Implements, they have them also