Super M hydrolics

Farmall M, Super M, 400, 450 & 560 Tractors, 1939-1963

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offrink
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Super M hydrolics

Postby offrink » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:06 pm

Just bought a new to me super m. It runs great. The only problems it has is that there is a slight gas leak (1 drip every 5 seconds while the engine is off). It's at the fuel on/off valve. Not a huge deal. I'll replace the whole sediment bowl and all. The other is that the hydrolic valve is frozen in a neural position. I'm not sure if it's painted shut or if it somehow rusted in place. Any suggestions on how to free it up?
Last edited by offrink on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby danovercash » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:26 pm

You may just need to tighten the packing nut on the bowl if leaking on that side.
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offrink
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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby offrink » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:35 pm

I tried that but didn't want to over tighten. I ordered a new set up so I guess I could try to just keep cranking it down until something broke or it was fixed. I think I'll wait until the new part arrives before I try it though. Just in case I need to use the tractor.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby offrink » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:04 pm

So I think I got the valve loosened up. Just took some penetrant and some sharp strikes of a hammer with more penetrant along the way to rinse the rust and lubricate. Moves freely. Now to find something to attach to the tractor to use the hydrolics!

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby offrink » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:38 pm

With a little firm tightening I got the gas to stop leaking. I ran the tractor for maybe 15 minutes. The engine was just getting Into an operating temperature and I noticed blue smoke coming down from the exhaust manifold. There is also a slight leak from around the valve cover which I will try to tighten down slowly to try not to over tighten. Last thing I need is a broken bolt. So any idea why there is a light blue smoke coming down from the exhaust manifold?

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby LincTex » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:24 pm

offrink wrote:...and I noticed blue smoke coming down from the exhaust manifold.
There is also a slight leak from around the valve cover which.......
So any idea why there is a light blue smoke coming down from the exhaust manifold?


it sounds to me like you answered your own question.
Oil leaking from the valve cover onto the ex manifold will indeed make blue smoke once the oil gets hot enough.

Pull the hood off and power wash that area very well. Tightening the valve cover might not help - you may need to pull it off and put a new gasket between the valve cover and the head.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby offrink » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:51 pm

I tightened down the bolts and the smoking stopped. The next problem I have is I was going up a steepish hill trying to get more smoke to see if I had fixed the leak and the tractor stalled out. I found that this engine drinks gas way more than a cub! I put a few gallons in and it would crank and crank but no fire. I was about to pull my hair out when I walked around the tractor and found the wire off of the distributer cap. Not something I have seen before. Plugged it in and it fired right up on the first crank. Oh well made it into the barn before dark.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:26 am

A Super M could have two different types of hydraulic systems.

First is the "belly pump" system, with a hydraulic unit in the belly of the tractor that drives off the transmission countershaft. Your foot needs to be off the clutch for this one to work.

Second is the "live" system, with a hydraulic pump installed in front of the distributor on the engine, and a tank for the oil under the gas tank. This will work whether the clutch is pushed or not.

There are also hybrid systems that use the live pump and the belly tank. This indicates an earlier tractor that was upgraded.

You don't need anything to hook up to test the hydraulics for basic function. If you pull the lever with nothing hooked up for 3-5 seconds, the engine should grunt slightly and you may hear a squealing noise indicating that it is making pressure.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby offrink » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:55 pm

There is no grunting and the engine doesn't act like it's working any harder. Other than hooking up to a hydraulic cylinder is there another way to check for function? I just don't want to be ready to use something and find out I need to rebuild a pump.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:37 am

The hydraulics are not working. Have you put oil in the system?

The fill for the most common belly pump system is under the gas tank on the right side, just above the hydraulic valve lever. It's a pipe sticking straight up through the torque tube of the tractor with a cap on it. It takes about 6 quarts of SAE30 motor oil or preferably hytran-compatible hydraulic fluid to fill it.

Remember you need to have your foot OFF the clutch pedal for the belly pump system to work.

The next thing is to take the access cover off the belly of the tractor and look up inside to see if the belly pump drive coupler is installed.

offrink
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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby offrink » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:49 am

I know there is fluid in the pump but don't know how to check if it's enough because the dipstick cap has been replaced. Guess I'll have to really dig into it. Any new gaskets I should be looking for or advice? New to working on these so it's new to me. Any photos of where the access panel is?

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:18 am

The hydraulic dipstick was a metal rod with a washer held on the end by a flat spot. Frequently over the years, it wore through the washer and fell down into the reservoir. The cap only covered the hole rather than having the dipstick attached to it. Sometimes you can use a small magnet on a stick and find it still inside the pipe.
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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:07 am

There are two alternative solutions to not having the dipstick:

1. Drain the reservoir and put 6 quarts of oil in. Then you're sure it is full.

2. Fill it to the brim, or at least until you can see oil in the fill pipe with a flashlight and a mirror. Full on the dipstick is pretty much full in the reservoir.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:14 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:There are two alternative solutions to not having the dipstick:

1. Drain the reservoir and put 6 quarts of oil in. Then you're sure it is full.

2. Fill it to the brim, or at least until you can see oil in the fill pipe with a flashlight and a mirror. Full on the dipstick is pretty much full in the reservoir.

3. Make your own dipstick out of a piece of heavy wire. Bend the upper end so you don't loose it down the hole.

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Re: Super M hydrolics

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:55 pm

Yeah, but then you'd have a dipstick, wouldn't you? :)


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