53 super m will not fire!!!

Farmall M, Super M, 400, 450 & 560 Tractors, 1939-1963

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.

Re: 53 super m will not fire!!!

Postby Jason (IL) » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:53 am

If the coil gets hot it time for a replacement. I have run into a few of those and one that stranded me it the middle of a parade route. As Eugene said, check for the spring on the poins, once it gets hot it will loose its tension and just stay open all the time. I suggest a complete tune up and start there with new points and a coil. I bet that May solve your problem. They are fairly inexpensive. Also chech your distributor cap. Make sure all the contacts inside it are clean. Use a pencil eraser to clean them. I recently ran into a worn cap that was missing the center point, it was worn off.

Good luck. Wish you were close I would give you a hand.
Jason (IL)
10+ Years
10+ Years
 
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 10:44 pm
Location: Gibson City, IL
Zip Code: 60936
Tractors Owned: 47 Cub SN 8664
48 Cub
50 Demo
54 Cub
55 Cub
2-56 Cub
55 LOBOY SN 876
57 LOBOY
2- 60 LOBOY
54 Super M
57 300LP
57 450
Cub Cadet 123
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 53 super m will not fire!!!

Postby tsargeS7 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:46 pm

Ok I am at the point of being ticked off. I have gone through everything.....again. I understand that if it is getting fuel and getting spark and the timing is right that it should fire and run like a champ. Well I am obviously missing something.

I have spark!! seen with my own eye and two others now just to verify I am not crazy.
I rebuilt the carburetor. Fixed the fuel leak which was the float not pressing the needle enough into the seat. (the measurements that came with the kit were wrong! Grrr...)
I went through the valves again. Making sure I was TDC #1 on the compression stroke (air moving out and then turned it to align with the mark on CS pulley.) Then gave one full turn so #4 was TDC. Odd thing is the valves were very loose from the last time I did this. The top of the valve stems are flat but the point on the spring caps are all angled??
Anyway, when #1 was TDC checked the points and they are open and .020 That should mean the timing is correct??
I put a new coil on it. Pulled all the plugs and sprayed some starting fluid in each chamber.
Put four brand new plus in it.
Will not fire, not even a for a nano second.

Can somebody explain the fuel delivery process in great detail. How is it distributed to each cylinder from the carburetor fuel bowl. Also, can someone explain the workings of the governor etc. Any and all help appreciated.

One other thing. I have not done a compression check yet. Helping my brother move and the gauge is packed up somewhere, nowhere to be found. I went to harbor freight and bought an engine compression kit and none of the fittings are even close to the right size for the plugs in the Super M :headbang
tsargeS7
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:35 pm
Zip Code: 84065

Re: 53 super m will not fire!!!

Postby Eugene » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:07 pm

tsargeS7 wrote:when #1 was TDC checked the points and they are open and .020 That should mean the timing is correct?
Not correct. At #1 cylinder TDC, the points should have just opened up, just enough to break contact. When the points break contact, the coil fires - spark.

As the ignition system is currently set up, the coil fires quite some time before the #1 cylinder reaches TDC.

Static time the engine. There is a video on static timing an engine on this site. Also several topics describing the procedure. You could use a timing light to check the ignition timing. You could also rotate distributor while cranking over the engine, ignition switch on.

Basically, you have to time the distributor to the engine - - - then time (spark) the distributor.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12638
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 53 super m will not fire!!!

Postby tsargeS7 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:20 pm

Ok, I watched the video. I have one question and I hope its not dumb. The video shows the timing with a magneto. I have a coil on mine, would the process be the same? I wouldn't expect to hear any clicks from the coil? Thanks for your input Eugene. I will do anything recommended at this point.
tsargeS7
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:35 pm
Zip Code: 84065

Re: 53 super m will not fire!!!

Postby Eugene » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:42 pm

tsargeS7 wrote:would the process be the same?
Well, similar. The magneto is a different system. You need a test light or multimeter to static time the battery ignition.

Engine set #1 cylinder tdc, rotor pointing at and centered on distributor cap #1 spark plug tower location. Loosen distributor so that is snug to turn. Rotate the distributor in the direction the rotor turns, usually clock wise, until the light lights or the multimeter shows continuity through the points. Rotate the distributor counter to the rotor's turn direction, opposite the previous direction, very slowly, until the light goes out or the multimeter looses continuity. Lock down distributor.

If you have a timing light, use it to set your initial timing. Just set the spark for #1 cylinder on the TDC mark. Some tractors, it takes two people to do this. One to check the timing, one to operate the starter and someone to turn the distributor while checking the timing.

If you still have a problem with the tractor, take a break from it for several days. Frequently the best thing to do is just walk away for a while.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
 
Posts: 12638
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Mo. Linn
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: 53 super m will not fire!!!

Postby tsargeS7 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:46 pm

UPDATE!!! I have the beast running :{_}:

What I did: I took the advice of some helpful members and static timed the engine!

What I found: The distributor shaft seemed to be about 90 degrees off. That is to say, At #1 TDC the rotor piece was pointing at the #2 spot on the cap. What is going on here. How can it be 90 degrees off now when I haven't done anything in that regard and six weeks ago it was running fine? Also I notice quite a bit of play in the distributor shaft itself, meaning once I aligned the direction of the rotor to the #1 position and installed the distributor, I can grab the shaft where it holds the rotor and turn it a little either way. This must affect the timing to some degree?

It appears I am having some issues with the needle and seat in my carburetor. The settings specified in the rebuild kit will not seat the needle when the float is up. If I adjust it for the float to sit higher the needle sticks in the seat and no gas comes out. Seems like it is one extreme or the other. Any advice on that?
Also the air mixture screw seems to not do anything in that I can screw it all the way in or out while it is running and don't notice any change.

Never the less, It is running now and I am thankful for that as well as all of the helpful advice I received from all on the forum.
tsargeS7
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:35 pm
Zip Code: 84065

Re: 53 super m will not fire!!!

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:28 pm

The sticking needle is because of those %$#@ing Viton-tipped needles.

If it were an all-brass needle like they used to be, it wouldn't be a problem, but you cant' get those anymore. They all have the stupid Nerf-dart tips on them now, which get jammed in the seat or leak like a sieve.

On my H, I eventually took the carburetor apart enough times and swore at it enough that it got scared and started working correctly. All I would do is take the needle out, put it back in, check the float level, make NO changes, and put it back together. I have not been as successful with my A or Cub carburetors. They don't leak a stream, but they do drip if left sitting long enough, so I shut off the fuel.
Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
 
Posts: 3408
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: Rochester, NY
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety Award
Circle of Safety: Y

Previous

Return to Farmall M, Super M, 400, 450, & 560

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest