Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Farmall B & BN Tractors, 1939-1947

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
SamsFarm
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
Fast Hitch CS Bell 60 Grain Mill
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby SamsFarm » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:41 pm

1E6D1045-5CE6-4F8C-8F84-36B755BFB4AA.png


I do not see anywhere in that it where it says to position the crank at tdc!
1968 Cub fast hitch

User avatar
Super A
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4983
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "The Paperweight"
Cub powered IH 52R combine
Grandfather's 1948 Super A
White demo Super A-"Ol Whitey"
1950 Super A "Old Ugly"
1954 Super A-1
856
Buncha other junk
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Jacksonville area

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby Super A » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:58 pm

SamsFarm wrote:1E6D1045-5CE6-4F8C-8F84-36B755BFB4AA.png

I do not see anywhere in that it where it says to position the crank at tdc!


Correct. Because that is not what you look at to time it--you line up the marks.

(In my teacher voice) Read. The. Manual.
Now. Do. What. It. Says.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
"It ain't a !@*% A. It's a SUPER A!"

User avatar
arlen
Cub Star
Cub Star
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm
Zip Code: 55975

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby arlen » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:26 pm

Super A wrote:
arlen wrote:

Can you help a brother out and count the teeth on the crank gear

from mark to key? Maybe the cam too? Snap a couple pics too?


As it happens I am sitting beside two A/Super A camshafts/gears, because I like to keep stuff like that sitting around.....

This is an early A cam. It took some rubbing with a scotchbrite pad but I found the marks. Yes, someone had put another mark on it sometime in the past which nearly threw me. They are tiny but they are there. I tried showing their location with my thumb and finger, then I marked them with a green highlighter, and then laid a ruler beside them.

If the tooth with two marks at the bottom of the pic is 1, count clockwise 35 teeth and that will be the tooth with the single mark.



Thanks!!! I appreciate those pictures more than you can possibly know :||):
That confirms which one of my double marks that I need to pretend is a single mark :lol:
Now if you could do the same with a crankshaft gear...I will send you a Christmas card :D
Just 1 pic straight on where I can see the key and the mark would do the trick.
Thanks again.

User avatar
Super A
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4983
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "The Paperweight"
Cub powered IH 52R combine
Grandfather's 1948 Super A
White demo Super A-"Ol Whitey"
1950 Super A "Old Ugly"
1954 Super A-1
856
Buncha other junk
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Jacksonville area

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby Super A » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:29 pm

arlen wrote:
Super A wrote:
arlen wrote:

Can you help a brother out and count the teeth on the crank gear

from mark to key? Maybe the cam too? Snap a couple pics too?


As it happens I am sitting beside two A/Super A camshafts/gears, because I like to keep stuff like that sitting around.....

This is an early A cam. It took some rubbing with a scotchbrite pad but I found the marks. Yes, someone had put another mark on it sometime in the past which nearly threw me. They are tiny but they are there. I tried showing their location with my thumb and finger, then I marked them with a green highlighter, and then laid a ruler beside them.

If the tooth with two marks at the bottom of the pic is 1, count clockwise 35 teeth and that will be the tooth with the single mark.



Thanks!!! I appreciate those pictures more than you can possibly know :||):
That confirms which one of my double marks that I need to pretend is a single mark :lol:
Now if you could do the same with a crankshaft gear...I will send you a Christmas card :D
Just 1 pic straight on where I can see the key and the mark would do the trick.
Thanks again.

This is a later A crank:
B2374F67-4766-4FE6-82F8-91472B5BBD0D.jpeg
E21F74CA-4874-40EF-95B9-061A22B03AD8.jpeg
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
"It ain't a !@*% A. It's a SUPER A!"

User avatar
arlen
Cub Star
Cub Star
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm
Zip Code: 55975

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby arlen » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:06 pm

Super A wrote:
arlen wrote:
Super A wrote:
As it happens I am sitting beside two A/Super A camshafts/gears, because I like to keep stuff like that sitting around.....

This is an early A cam. It took some rubbing with a scotchbrite pad but I found the marks. Yes, someone had put another mark on it sometime in the past which nearly threw me. They are tiny but they are there. I tried showing their location with my thumb and finger, then I marked them with a green highlighter, and then laid a ruler beside them.

If the tooth with two marks at the bottom of the pic is 1, count clockwise 35 teeth and that will be the tooth with the single mark.



Thanks!!! I appreciate those pictures more than you can possibly know :||):
That confirms which one of my double marks that I need to pretend is a single mark :lol:
Now if you could do the same with a crankshaft gear...I will send you a Christmas card :D
Just 1 pic straight on where I can see the key and the mark would do the trick.
Thanks again.

This is a later A crank:
B2374F67-


Looks like you get a Christmas card!
Now all I need to do is lineup the double Mark on the cam with the double mark on the governor, and lineup the other double Mark on the cam with the single mark on the crank :D
Not exactly what the manual says, but I can work with it!
This chapter is closed

SamsFarm
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
Fast Hitch CS Bell 60 Grain Mill
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby SamsFarm » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:51 pm

When you a sure of the cam install, file off (as best you can) the corrupt extra dot, and maybe deepen the proper one with a center punch!

70 years from now when it needs another freshing up, the next person to do the work will thank you for it! :lol:
1968 Cub fast hitch

User avatar
arlen
Cub Star
Cub Star
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm
Zip Code: 55975

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby arlen » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:00 pm

SamsFarm wrote:When you a sure of the cam install, file off (as best you can) the corrupt extra dot, and maybe deepen the proper one with a center punch!

70 years from now when it needs another freshing up, the next person to do the work will thank you for it! :lol:

I was wondering how I was going to take care of that. I will need to get rid of at least 4 corrupt dots!
My father in law bought it new, and had it rebuilt at least once and I think 3 valve jobs by machinist's best estimate. He said the head is good for 1 more.
The 2 guys that did all the serious mechanic work are both dead. 1 just last year, or I would have pulled him in as a consultant. I am consulting with another old guy that gave it a couple tune ups, he was sure cussing the guys that put the extra punches in the cam!!!
The dealership where he bought it is still in business and owned by the same family. The tractor has never left the farm. and he worked the devil out of it for many years.
My wife said it was not an option to let it die.
Thanks again for your help.

SamsFarm
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
Fast Hitch CS Bell 60 Grain Mill
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby SamsFarm » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:13 pm

arlen wrote:My wife said it was not an option to let it die.


Gotta love her for that!!! :)
1968 Cub fast hitch

Gary Dotson
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 4264
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:20 am
Zip Code: 43358
Tractors Owned: 48 Cub Diesel (Cubota)
53 Cockshutt 20 restored (Shooter)
52 Cockshutt 20 unrestored
47 Leader "B" (Herckie)
49 Leader "D" (Princess)
49 Leader "D" very rough
48 Leader "D" unrestored
Kubota B6200E
Kubota B6200HST
Kubota B8200HST-D
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: OH West Mansfield

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby Gary Dotson » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:03 am

I'm glad you found the right help on this, Arlen. I haven't been inside one of them for way many years so I stayed out of it. If it's any consolation, my older brother who was an excellent mechanic, bought a "B" in about 1964. It needed an engine rebuild which he did. The tractor ran great and was used for many years, then retired. About 10 years ago, he decided to restore it and tore the engine down. It had run excellent all these years with the cam timing off by 1 tooth.

User avatar
arlen
Cub Star
Cub Star
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm
Zip Code: 55975

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby arlen » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:34 am

Gary Dotson wrote:I'm glad you found the right help on this, Arlen. I haven't been inside one of them for way many years so I stayed out of it. If it's any consolation, my older brother who was an excellent mechanic, bought a "B" in about 1964. It needed an engine rebuild which he did. The tractor ran great and was used for many years, then retired. About 10 years ago, he decided to restore it and tore the engine down. It had run excellent all these years with the cam timing off by 1 tooth.

That is funny...I was chatting with the machinist that has been doing the machine work, and he said that I had it very close, and wouldn’t be able to verify it any further until the head is on and I can tell accurately when the valve clearance is taken up.
Then he said, it will run fine anyway if it’s a tooth off :D

User avatar
arlen
Cub Star
Cub Star
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm
Zip Code: 55975

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby arlen » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:24 am

Now that all the facts are in, and I've got the head on, and the engine mounted to the tractor and was able to confirm the cam timing, I thought I would update the thread with the consolidated findings. It may come in handy for the next poor fool that has multiple marks on the cam gear.
1) When crank/cam gear marks are "in mesh", the crank is 15ish degrees past top dead center on #1 power stroke.
2) When lined up, the cam gear keyway is pointing to the left.
3) You can verify cam timing once it's all together using the fly wheel "DC 1-4" mark. On the #1 intake stroke, when all intake valve clearance is taken up, the mark should be 4 ring gear teeth past the pointer on the lower flywheel cover (360/90x4=16deg)
4) The single mark on the cam gear is located 35 teeth clockwise from the double mark.
5) The crank gear mark is located on the 5th full groove counter clockwise from the keyway.
6) A picture is worth a thousand words.

Thanks for everyone that helped me solve my problem, but especially Super A for posting his pictures.

SamsFarm
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
Fast Hitch CS Bell 60 Grain Mill
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby SamsFarm » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:49 am

Did you test fire it yet? :)
1968 Cub fast hitch

User avatar
arlen
Cub Star
Cub Star
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:47 pm
Zip Code: 55975

Re: Possible Crank/Cam gear Timing Issue C-113

Postby arlen » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:51 pm

SamsFarm wrote:Did you test fire it yet? :)

No, I’m not even going to buy spark plugs until it’s all put together so I’m not tempted to run it :D


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Farmall B & BN”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests