More 140 steering

Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:28 am

Later I plan to post more about this part of the project. Nasty surprises at every turn.
My steering wheel is black plastic, no metal spokes visible. The center cap is clear with embedded IH logo. Evidently some previous owner boogered up the threads for pulling the steering wheel. The two holes for puller mounting are obviously for 1/4" bolts. In the case of my tractor, neither 1/4-20 nor 1/4-28 bolts will screw in far enough to be effective. I prefer to know the original specifications before retapping to clear up the threads. Anyone know the original thread?
Last edited by Bus Driver on Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: 140 steering

Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:54 am

I've never pulled one. If I had, I probably wouldn't remember what the thread was anyway. I can't believe that between here and YT somebody doesn't have the answer. I checked the part number for the steering wheel and every tractor from the 140 through the 660 used the same wheel (although some listed R1 and others R2). I found the same on the 404 and 504, after that I quit looking.

Re: 140 steering

Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:33 am

I have replaced 2 will look tonight to see if the old ones are laying around still I am almost sure it is 1/4 28 , I do remember I had to chase the threads to get it off

Boss

Re: 140 steering

Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:41 am

The upper end of the steering shaft is simply flat, no center dimple to guide the screw on a puller. While awaiting definitive information on the bolt size, I plan to center punch and center drill such a dimple to aid in pulling the wheel. Drilling must be with portable tools since the shaft will not fit in a lathe with the wheel attached.

Re: 140 steering

Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:18 pm

Bus Driver wrote:The upper end of the steering shaft is simply flat, no center dimple to guide the screw on a puller.

One time when I ran into a shaft like that (not on a tractor) and used a simple expediant. I took a small hex nut (small enough that it would fit through the hole in the steering wheel) and placed it between the ends of the steering shaft and the puller screw. The nut stayed in place centered on the steering shaft and the puller screw turned in the nut. Worked well enough that I have kept the nut with the puller ever since and used it several more times.

I don't know whether it will work for you. Now that I mentined it, it probably won't work any more for me either.

Re: 140 steering

Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:44 am

A vendor at Denton had a new aftermarket steering wheel for sale. Looked good. The puller holes appeared to be 1/4-28. So this morning I tapped mine to that size. Perhaps I tapped deeper than original because the chips were more than expected. My steering wheel puller would not accept bolts as close together as this wheel. Made a plate to hold the jaws of a two-jaw puller and used long 1/4-28 bolts to stand up from the recess in the steering wheel. Took much, much, longer to do all the preliminaries than it did to pull the wheel.

The right steering knuckle housing extension came out of the axle tube with little difficulty. The left side is STUCK. Since the U-bolt is between the center and the left side plus the center axle tube must be removed to access the steering gear box bolts, I had to remove all the front components, from the engine forward, while assembled. Then I could remove the U-bolt. One of the U-bolt nuts is blocked by the crankshaft pulley when the radiator support is in place. What a struggle!
Now to get the left side extension out of the axle tube.

Re: 140 steering

Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:56 pm

The axle assembly is now apart. Used 3# steel hammer on it several times a day for 3 days. Hammered the surface of the outer tube, wanting to noticeably deform nothing. Heated the left end half three times, once a day for three days and hammered while hot. Today it budged just 1/16" and the next 1/4" took 15 minutes of work. Very slow as it was very tight until the last 3". Pulled it with come-along anchored to big tractor and tree on the other end. Held maximum tension while hammering.

The interior of the outer axle tube is quite rough with many raised places. The inner tube is not so bad and will be easy to clean and smooth. Right now my idea is to use a 2 7/8"' hole saw on a long mandrel (I have them in the shop) and clean the inside of the axle tube. 3" saw is too big. 2 7/8" is not a tight fit and i might use duct tape on one side to make it fit more snugly in the bore. It will not have to spin fast nor many turns- so I hope. At my age, ideas come slowly and then more time is needed while things are considered to be sure the Law of Unintended Consequences does not interfere with the outcome.

Re: More 140 steering

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:54 pm

This will be a bit long, but hopefully the information will help you to advise me correctly.
I know the history of this 1958 model 140 for the last 20 years. Always sheltered, often in open side shed. The steering had more than 1/4 turn of steering wheel play, perhaps nearer to 1/2 turn. Steering gear arm moved visibly up and down as steering wheel direction was reversed.
No lubricant added to steering gear in the 20 years. Lube removed was good quantity of heavy oil, no water in it. Apparent seepage, but no significant leakage on the floor and lube level did not drop in the 20 years. The big 1 5/8" nut holding the arm was not very tight, perhaps 40 ft lb. The cotter pin was in place in good condition. The 6 bolts holding the base housing and steering gear housing were barely tight, perhaps 15 ft lb, surprising that there was no leak of lube oil. Steering arm key and key slot were perfect condition.
GSS-1471 Service Manual specifies 175-275 ft lb for the big nut and 150-170 for the 6 bolts. The torque spec. for the 6 bolts seems high to me.
The steering worm wheel shaft bearing is in perfect condition and that shaft has no vertical play when force is applied by hand. The 3 bearing retainer bolts were very tight, but not the 150-160 ft lb specification in the manual. Again that value seems high to me. They were perhaps 90 ft lb. In the pocket for the ball bearing, there is a shim ring on my tractor above the bearing, not shown in the parts catalog. The bearing retainer snap ring is in place and good condition.
Both of the gears are perfect, showing only a slight point-of-contact wear mark. The lower shaft bushing is very tight. The steering wheel shaft has no discernable play.
The axle pivot pin and axle housing bushings are perfect and tight with no visible wear. The steering knuckles ("kingpins") and the bushings in those housings are just like new. The tractor has obviously been well lubed by all owners.
So I am really stumped by the excess steering wheel play. Play is cumulative, each moving point adds to the overall play. Except for the almost-loose big nut, nothing else is out of order. And why would the motion of the arm be vertical if the shaft is held firmly by the ball bearing and it's snap ring and retainer with 3 bolts? There are no shim rings on the shaft between the two housing parts and no surfaces that look to be suited for such shims.
Advice? Things to check in addition to those mentioned?

Re: More 140 steering

Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:15 am

Seems like you covered everything. All the not-tight-enough bolts shouldn't be contributing to steering looseness unless they were actually loose. There are only three places that can contribute to end play of the worm wheel shaft. Either the bearing came move on the shaft, the bearing can move in the housing or the bearing itself is worn to the point of having end play. If those points are all good, I don't see any way to have end play on that shaft. You mention a shim between the bearing and snap ring. Makes me womder of the original bearing has been replaced with a slightly thinner replacement. If so, maybe it can move in the housing even with the 3-bolt retainer in place. It may not move under hand pressure but move from the force of normal operation. If so, it may need a shim between the outer race and the housing.

On the older tractors, A and Super A, the arm was clamped to a squarish section of the shaft. When they loosened up, the arm would move up and down a lot even though the shaft didn't move up and down. I have never seen that sort of motion on the later style. I suppose some sort of odd wear to the key and keyway could show up as the same sort of looseness, but I have never seen it. In fact, whenever we replaced an old style shaft and arm with the keyway and big nut style, we considered it to be a permanent fix.

Other than the shim question, I can't think of anything you haven't already looked into.

Re: More 140 steering

Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:34 am

The bearing fits into a bore in the housing. The shim ring, like a big steel washer with a huge center hole, is in the bore first and the then the bearing/shaft assembly is inserted in the bore. The shim ring is not homemade and while I have not measured it, it is in the range of 0.010- 0.015 thick. I doubt that the steering gear has ever been previously disassembled since new.

Re: More 140 steering

Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:44 am

Thinking through this a bit more, I will use a depth mic to measure the bore depth of the pocket for the ball bearing and then measure the bearing height plus the shim found in the pocket. If the pocket depth permits vertical movement of the bearing, that could result in vertical movement of the steering arm. Any discrepancy will be shimmed to compensate. I do not plan to replace the 382 230 R91 oil seal.

Re: More 140 steering

Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:18 am

I had read your earlier post that the shim was at the inner race of the bearing, taking up space between it and the snap ring. Rereading it now I see that the shim was between the outer race and the housing. My suggestion was to see if one was needed where this shim already is. While it is a good idea to make sure the shim is thick enough, I imagine you will find it is. I wonder if the shim was compensation for a machining error in the housing. There was probably a whole run produced with the bore cut too deep.

You are doing everything I can think of to get that steering box tightened up.

Re: More 140 steering

Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:53 pm

The steering wheel shaft/worm gear combo has no unexpected play in it's operation either before repairs were started nor since. It does not move in nor out of the housing. No excess end play in the worm portion. It cannot be directly involved in vertical movement of the steering arm. So I left it in place in the housing. Makes handling the assembly awkward to be sure.
Parts for this project ordered from a dealer today. Most parts priced within reason. But snap ring 102069H (now 395816R1) for the water pump is priced at $7.03- pure gouging! The old ring was broken.

Re: More 140 steering

Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:33 pm

Bus driver i just finished a steering project on a 140 i found the keyway was worn i took it to a friends machine shop he beveled out the top of the sector gear around the shaft then welded it and machined it back smooth so the bearing would fit flush i replaced the bearing on the top of the sector gear and both bushings and seals i found no shims in the steering box anywhere my friend didn't charge anything for his work and the parts from IH was $80.00 drives like a new 140.

Jim

Re: More 140 steering

Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:47 pm

Bus Driver I believe that Jim has your fix. That sector gear can move on the shaft, won't do it until you have the wheels on the ground. The center steering arm can slop too.

Last time I knew a new gear and shaft was over $800 thru caseIH. I believe it's Steiner that now offers these parts aftermarket, still expensive but a fraction of what caseIH charges. There is no shame in welding it as Jim described!

Al