New A More bad news....

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973

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CPIII
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New A More bad news....

Postby CPIII » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:14 pm

Well I took some time to go to Shiner to try and get my A running......well the running part didn't happen....but I found a lot more problems that I need to fix before she will run. Below is the list:
1. Governor - I can move the governor rod back and forth with hardly no resistance at all...and the shaft seems to wobble within the housing......not looking forward to that one. Is there a rebuild kit available for the governor? I look for used ones ....couldn't find any on ebay.
2. Carb - I rebuilt the carb but failed to notice when I was removing it that one of the mounting holes was stripped out - can I tap It out to the next bigger size?
3. Starter - tried to put a new battery on the tractor to see if I could get it to turn over using the starter - no go...not even a spark. Not sure if what I can test to see if the starter is worth rebuilding or should I just get another one.

Well it was a very disappointing weekend as far as starting the tractor goes...any help you guys could offer would be appreciated.
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby Barnyard » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:27 pm

Can't answer the governor question.

The carb can be heli coiled just like the Cub carbs are. That is the best route.

Are all your electrical connections clean? Do you have power at the starter? If the answer is no to either question then a new starter probably isn't the answer and would be a waste of money. After sitting corrosion can built anywhere along the electrical route. They all need to be cleaned. Take the starter off and put it in a vise. Put jumpers from the starter to a good battery. If it spins with a good thrust the odds are the battery is not the problem.
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:59 pm

I have had very little dealings with a super a, but are you sure the governor normally has much resistance with the engine not running?
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby havoc1482 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:50 pm

You're talking about the rocker that crosses the front of the engine and connects to the carb right? When the engine is off its not hard to move. Or are we talking, like, it can just flop around with little to no resistance?
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby CPIII » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:28 am

Thanks for all the replies.
Bill,
I checked all the connections and made sure I was getting power to the starter. I did what you suggested and pulled the starter and put it in a vise. I then used jumper cables and a good battery.....still nothing not even a spark which is very strange to me...I have taken the starter apart and the commutator looks like it is very dirty and worn. so I will hit that with a file a bit to clean it up. The brushes don't look new but they seem like they are good enough to get it to spin. I will also ohm out the windings tonight and make sure they aren't open. I will have pictures of all this tomorrow.

John, Havoc,
Yes I am talking about the arm that connects to the butterfly control on the carb.....I am used to a little looseness in the governor arm but this seems to be very excessive as it includes side to side play within the case of the governor. Is there supposed to be a return spring similar to the one on the cub? I didn't notice one on the A.....but I didn't look everywhere ..
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby artc » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:47 am

the bushing in the governor housing needs to be changed to eliminate that slop - or a different governor. there is a spring inside the governor - performing the same function as on a cub, which may be worn as well. look for wear on the ends of the spring and the attachment points.

the brushes on your starter were probably not making contact with the armature. you can clean it up with crocus cloth. make sure the brushes make good contact as well. then it should spin on the bench in the vise
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby CPIII » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:01 pm

Thanks Art!
Now that I think about it there was a ton of "Helper Dents" in the brush shroud on the starter.....I think even though the brushes looked like they were making contact they actually were stuck. I am going to mount the armature in my drill press on low speed and use a small file to clean up the commutator as I think that is part of the issue also. SInce I have it apart will also put a rebuild kit in it for good measure.
As a side note...if I remove all the windings and the contact stud there shouldn't be anything preventing me from cleaning up the starter housing and powder coating it....as there are no seals that I know of in the starter other than the one on the contact stud. Correct?

I am still in the mode of if it stays still long enough it gets sandblasted and powder coated... :D
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby Boss Hog » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:03 pm

I dont remember the bushing size but I did get it off the internet, it was not an odd size I think , sometimes you will need to build up or replace the shaft.
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby havoc1482 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:37 pm

I'm just gonna throw up this diagram on here for what its worth. Your problem area is #14/15 Good luck

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CPIII
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby CPIII » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:43 am

After cleaning everything up a bit I was able to get the starter to turn....but not very well....it was very weak and drew tons of current. So I am not sure if this is worthy of a rebuild kit or should I just go for a new (To Me - Used) starter.
Here are some pictures I promised.
Brushes:
Brushes.JPG


Commutator:
CommutatorOld.JPG
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Charles Patek III
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby artc » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:53 am

that commutater looks terrible. it should be shiny all the way across each segment, and between the segments needs to be clean and free of conductive material.
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby CPIII » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:21 am

Do you think it is worth messing with? I guess I can get a dremel tool and clean out between the pads.....but not sure how much life is left in it....I cleaned it up with a brass wire wheel and it looks better...but still not good.
Charles Patek III
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:07 am

You can't loose much by giving it a try. If you have a lathe or access to one, put the armature in it and either use a wide fine file or emery cloth withe a backer, such as a file to smooth and even it. You can just hold it down and wrap emery cloth around it, but that will not get it quite as even. Once that is done use a knife point to clean the spaces/insulators between each segment. I noticed one of the brushes is a lot shorter than the others, it may not have been making good contact and burning off, causing all the arcing on the armature. If you happen to have a generator/starter place in your area, they can do it right, but expect around an $80 to $100 bill if you do.
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby Ironlegs » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:37 am

The diagram of the governor showing all the parts should help you with getting this portion back in order. I saw mention of painting/powder-coating the starter motor...keep in mind that the boss on the starter that inserts into the back of the fly wheel housing MUST have good electrical contact in order to ground the starter motor. The posted picture of the starter commutator showed cleaning and dressing are needed. Another item to inspect and restore before attempting to start the tractor would be the distributor spark advance mechanism which is located below the floor of the distributor...I bet the fly weights and mechanism is gummed-up and not working.
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Re: New A More bad news....

Postby CPIII » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:27 am

Thanks for the reply John,
I plan on masking off the parts that require a good electrical connection. My A has a Magneto and I have already verified that it is in good working order. But like I said thanks for the reply!!
Charles Patek III
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