Question regarding Kerosene super a

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:48 pm

I just picked up another super a for parts but after checking it out I think it is to good to part out. How do I tell if it is a kerosene or distallate model. The hood has the extra hole for the small tank and it has a shutter control. Some parts are missing like the extra tank and the shutters themselves. Would the engine number reveal additional info?
Thanks in advance
Steve

Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:46 pm

Depending on the year, it should be marked with X13 for kerosene, or X17 for distillate, of the later ones were A for distillate, and B for kerosene.

Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:42 pm

The X codes were not used on the Super A series, I think they applied to the H & M only.

If you have the extra hole in the hood and shutter controls, it is a pretty good bet that you have a kerosene/distillate burner. Shutters by themselves were optional on gasoline tractors, in fact my great-uncle and next door neighbor has a gasoline Super A with shutters. Anyway....

Look at the manifold. It should be larger and "box-ier" for lack of a better word, where the intake/exhaust chambers come together and the exhaust pipe goes out the top. The exhaust pipe will be held on by two bolts, rather than threaded black pipe screwed into the top of the manifold as on gasoline tractors. Keep in mind the manifold could have been replaced.

What are your engine and tractor serial numbers? The engine serial # may give us some clues.

Here's mine. It was set up for kerosene or distillate, but was always run on gas.

Image

Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:57 pm

Thanks for your responses. Here are the engine numbers 354898 r1, 12-19-x
It also has the mount for the stock temp sending unit as far as I have read the gas engines did not come with a factory temp gauge only the others. Also the pistons are skirted not round on the bottom and has a Z stamped on it.

Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:01 pm

The tractor # is 322818 and also has a rpm rating of 1540 I thought the rpm rating was lower. The manifold is the regular style but it was not mounted it just came in a box with some other parts.

Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:21 pm

Look for the engine serial number on the upper left hand corner of the engine block, near where the distributor would mount. The engine numbers you quoted are the part number. The tractor serial number indicates a 1951 model by the way.... :D

The gas tractors could have a temp gauge from teh factory, it was an option. If it had radiator shutters it would have the temp gauge.

Al

Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:12 pm

Got a dead end on the engine serial number I found the spot where it is supposed to be but it is blank either the stamping was weak and over the years it wore away or it was removed on purpose either way thats a dead end. Any other way to determine weather it is kerosene , distillate ,or gas? Maybe by the pistons? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am pretty sure I want to restore this and not part it out but I need to know the correct pistons and sleeves to order. I found the number 4053-D on the side of the piston along with a Z does anyone know what this means?
Thanks Steve

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Possibly a replacement block.

I don't come up with anything on 4053-D. Can you find a part number cast into the cylinder head?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:30 pm

That is the part number for the piston. Let me get home and check my parts book

It may be your tractor got a replacement engine at some point. The date code you posted with the block part number is from 1952.

Al

Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:39 pm

Little more info. The head #'s are 251172-R2 8-30-W. I also measured the bore and it is 3" 1/8 not 3" and the rod bearing is marked .020 so I assume the crank was ground at some point. I checked my parts book and I couldn't find any # close to the # I posted for the piston. These pistons are stepped not flat and I believe alum. I wonder if this was rebuilt to a 123 cid and then just run on gas from the rebuild on, maybe that would explain the absence of the small fuel tank.
Steve

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:06 pm

The Valu-bilt catalog list the following bores for the Super A: 3", 3 1/8", 3 3/16", and 3 1/4".

Since you have the head off the engine. Crank the engine over and measure the distance from the top surface of the block to the top of the piston at TDC.

On the 201 cubic inch Allis Chalmers engine there are about 7 different pistons available. Including low compression/kerosene. The kerosene pistons set very low - approximately 1 inch below the surface of the block at TDC. The higher the compression ratio the closer the piston is to the surface of the block.

My thought is that the engine has been previously rebuilt with a new piston and sleeve set. If the engine were initially set up for kerosene - the owner would more than likely have installed the higher compression (bit more power) gasoline sleeve and piston set.

Eugene

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:57 pm

Thanks Eugene, The piston at TDC is probably within a quarter of an inch from the top of the sleeve. I tend to agree with you on the rebuild being for gas. I am having trouble with the valu-bilt site maybe I can get some info from them later.
Steve

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:11 pm

That is the part number for a gasoline head. The stepped pistons are higher compression gasoline pistons in an 1/8" overbore. If it was a kerosene or distillate engine, no internal kerosene parts remain.

Your block should have the bigger lower bore for the sleeves. If you buy sleeve and piston sets, you need to choose from the "serial number 310300 and above" choices.

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:13 pm

http://www.valu-bilt.com/catalog_request.php

Try this. Order the free catalog. Parts - click on parts in upper left corner of page.

Looks like Iowa is going to have it's 2nd annual across Iowa tractor ride.

Eugene

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:22 pm

Thanks Jim, I think with everyones help we are narrowing this down. I think you are correct no internal Kerosene parts left
Eugene, When I click on the parts section every part category I click on says no records found. Somethings not working correctly I am sure they are not out of every part for a Super A. I went ahead and ordered the catalog.
Steve