C113 vs C123 ???

[BullDAWG]

I know the c123 has a larger bore. But when did they change to the c123? (Year or serial #) How can you tell (where on engine)(is it casting # or serial# or a visual difference)?

[AL Farmall Boy]

When the Farmall 100 was introduced in late 1954, it was introduced with a C-123 engine. Acutally the first tractors to have that engine was a 1954 Super A........named the Super A-1.......but most people associate the Farmall 100 with the change. It is clearly visible if it is a C-123 because #1) The block should have C-123 cast into it to the right of oil filter, and #2) It will have a Water Pump where a C-113 didn't originally have one.

[BullDAWG]

Mine is a 1950 SA and doesn't have a water pump so it must be a 113 n thanks for the info, I wasn't sure when the SA-1 were started, u made it simple to know

[Super A]

When the Farmall 100 was introduced in late 1954, it was introduced with a C-123 engine. Acutally the first tractors to have that engine was a 1954 Super A........named the Super A-1.......but most people associate the Farmall 100 with the change. It is clearly visible if it is a C-123 because #1) The block should have C-123 cast into it to the right of oil filter, and #2) It will have a Water Pump where a C-113 didn't originally have one.

Well it's a little more complicated than that. Early Super As, As, Bs and early Cs were straight up 113. Later in Super A production, but before 1954, they revised the crankcase by changing the block bore at the bottom. This basically made the block capable of being a 123 or a 113. Now don't ask me specific years or serial numbers because I'd have to check, (I would guess 1951 when the Super C came out because it had a 123) but the two blocks carry different part numbers. (IIRC there's a notation in the records from the Louisville plant about a run of Farmall Cs with 123 engines. I'll have to check.) The Super A-1 engines (that's A-One, not A-Eye) were 123s but at that point they had not started casting C123 in the block yet, the engines carried a FCM prefix in front of the engine serial number instead of FAAM.

The 123 will have a water pump, some added water pumps to the 113s. IH offered a conversion kit to add a water pump, complete with an upper water neck for a thermostat and temp gauge lead, for the Farmall C but I haven't found it in the Super A parts book. I feel like somebody somewhere probably put one on a Super A.

To further complicate things, you could buy thin-wall sleeves to turn a 113 engine into a 123.

If you're going to buy sleeves and pistons for one of these engines, be sure you know your block number and honestly it would be a good idea to measure an old sleeve.

Al

[AL Farmall Boy]

well said Al. You are right about it coming out first with the Super C.......I was just thinking about offset tractors when I typed that.

[Jim Becker]

There is one more detail that can be important. The A and (early) Super A engines were mostly the same. However, the block from an A does not have provision for a hydraulic pump. So an A block can't be substituted into the later tractors.

[AL Farmall Boy]

There is one more detail that can be important. The A and (early) Super A engines were mostly the same. However, the block from an A does not have provision for a hydraulic pump. So an A block can't be substituted into the later tractors.

Is it true Jim that some of the very late Farmall 'A' tractors had the provision for the hydraulic pump and the tc unit, but had a cover plate over it? Basically, IH had already shifted the C-113 block production for Super A tractors with hydraulics. I've never ran across one, but have heard that.

[Jim Becker]

I've heard that too, but never seen a tractor that backs up the story, nor any documents to back it up. It is possible a few that got built using "sample" blocks with the pump mounting provision. It is also possible they started using Super A blocks on the last few A tractors, but is would have been darn few.

Every (regular production) A I've seen with a Super A block, the block had a date code that indicated it was a replacement.

[BullDAWG]

Think I read somewhere that the larger sleeved 113 after serial # 310300 was when u could use either the 123 OR 113 sleeves n pistons. I can look it up n confirm and also find the part # BUT I don't know where to look for either on my SA, though I do know my tractor is SA 3106XX so I might be able to turn mine into a 123 when I need to rebuild it.

[Jim Becker]

Yeah, the 310300 sleeve change is listed in the description of many replacement sleeve sets. It is the point of the block change that Al described. I had the relevant block part numbers at one time, probably have a note here somewhere. A quick look in the books suggest the original Super A block was 251 069 R1 and the first C-123 was 354 898 R1.