Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

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inairam
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Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby inairam » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:59 pm

1940s-50s Allis Chalmers Model G enjoys relevance again with the debut of the CleBer LLC Oggun tractor

"that the tractor can be bought for less than $13,000

"Several different engine options are available, and buyers can specify a 19-horsepower Honda or Kohler gas engine, while international customers can also specify a Kohler diesel engine. The Oggun, which has a 123-inch wheelbase and a five-gallon fuel tank, uses hydraulic steering and brakes and weighs less than 1,800 pounds."


https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/09/1 ... n-tractor/

Sounds a lot like a cub with 10 more HP!! If someone updated the Cub design would it be competitive?
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IMG_1865-970x541.jpg
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Barnyard
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby Barnyard » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:13 pm

inairam wrote:Sounds a lot like a cub with 10 more HP!! If someone updated the Cub design would it be competitive?

Those engines could never provide the torque needed to compete with a Cub
It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt -

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inairam
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Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader
1949 with kub klipper belly mower.
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower
1975 with homemade mower
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby inairam » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:30 pm

IMG_1872-970x647.jpg

Barnyard it is a hydraulic drive. I would say it has some torque at the wheels. No breaks either -hydraulic
Last edited by inairam on Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Stevetractor
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby Stevetractor » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:39 pm

I wonder how much it would cost today to build the Cub to the same specs as original in a North American plant. Unfortunately don't think many of us could afford one.
JMHO don't think I'd want one of those hydraulic drives in 60 years. Everything but the hoses would be obsolete :surrender:

ntrenn
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby ntrenn » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:10 pm

So...its a zero turn mower on a cultivator chassis....wont get my vote.
Now...before you ever get excited about a 20 hp kohler you need to look at the rating system which allows bare engine ratings. Our 9 or 10 ponies are REAL ponies that do work...not imaginary.
A cub engine from 1964 was 16-18 hp bare..and about 35 ft lbs torque. If you could cool it...it's sensible to get up in the 24 hp range with compression cam and rpm. It would be really nice hydrostatic conversion at that power level. Probably wouldnt be cost competitive but they get a whole lot of money for those orange things...so one never knows until you run the numbers...

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gitractorman
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby gitractorman » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:19 pm

There isn't a manufacturer, anywhere in the world, that would build a Cub to the same specs today. In reality, the cub was way heavier than it should have been for the size and power. Today's compact diesel tractors are more than twice the horsepower, lighter, and more maneuverable due to power steering, foot controlled hydrostatic drive, etc. New diesel engines develop way more power than the old C-60, and are way more fuel efficient. I have a Simplicity Legacy XL, with a 27hp Dihatsu diesel engine, foot controlled hydro, 4-wheel drive. It will run a 60-inch mower deck without bogging down even in the tallest grass. The Cat-1 3-point hitch lets me run a 54" tiller or the 48" brush hog again without even thinking about it. The front end loader walks itself on/off, all I need to do is hook up the hydraulic lines, then flip a lever to lock the loader in place... from the driver's seat.

If you really wanted a tractor for cultivating, or plowing fields, like the Cub was originally intended by design, you could technically do that with nearly any garden tractor now. However, in 1947, wehn the Cub came out, there were no garden tractors. The Cub actually WAS a "garden tractor".

So, back to another one of your questions, how much would it cost to build today. It would easily be in the $15,000 to $20,000 range today if someone did actually build it.
Cub Cadets 682, 1811, 1864, Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 Diesel with FEL, 60" mower, 50" Tiller

ntrenn
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Tractors Owned: 63 Cub 221833 in family since '69
65 Lo-boy 19648 with an un-stuck #4 - it lives!!!
144 Cultivators with disc hillers
193 Plow
42C mower
59L mower mounted on the Fcub
23A Disc - lost possession
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Location: Indiana

Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby ntrenn » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:26 pm

On the power issue...most 'modern' engines make their power at 3000 rpm or so...whereas the c60 did it at 1600. If a cub even had 5 more hp....wow what a difference...
Gitractorman is dead on...you would have to modernize the platform to even stand a chance and even at 15 grand nobody would invest in the business....
Safety...emissions...fuel economy...warranty...
Gets really complicated....

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ShawnAgne
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby ShawnAgne » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:18 am

I'm not seeing the point. Reason I like the cub is because it looks/is old, burns gas, drips oil and reminds me of being at grandpa and grandma's. A new hydro-static tractor is just different, if I wanted that I'd just buy tractor that is currently on the market.
Shawn Agne

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Urbish
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby Urbish » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:44 am

ShawnAgne wrote:I'm not seeing the point. Reason I like the cub is because it looks/is old, burns gas, drips oil and reminds me of being at grandpa and grandma's.


I think you got that backwards. Most of ours drip gas and burn oil, and reminds us of grandpa because it smokes and makes funny noises. :{_}:

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T-Mo
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby T-Mo » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:50 am

New Holland brought out a retro 8N a few years back, it was one of their Boomer series. I don't know how well it was perceived, nor do I know what the price point was on them.

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Urbish
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby Urbish » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:13 pm

T-Mo wrote:New Holland brought out a retro 8N a few years back, it was one of their Boomer series. I don't know how well it was perceived, nor do I know what the price point was on them.


Image

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T-Mo
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby T-Mo » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:29 pm

Yep, that's it.

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Urbish
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Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby Urbish » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:00 pm

Do you think in today's nanny state, lawsuit avoidance type of world, that there would ever be a crank-start on a tractor again?

inairam
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 with international 1000 loader
1949 with kub klipper belly mower.
1957 with c-2 mower & c-54 grader blade
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower
1975 with homemade mower
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby inairam » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:09 pm

"Do you think in today's nanny state, lawsuit avoidance type of world"

imaging troubleshooting an ignition problem on the Cub with 14 safety switching between you a spark on the plugs
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Urbish
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1947 Farmall H
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1953 Willys CJ3B
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Location: Manchester, MI

Re: Do you think an updated Cub would be competitive today?

Postby Urbish » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:47 pm

inairam wrote:"Do you think in today's nanny state, lawsuit avoidance type of world"

imaging troubleshooting an ignition problem on the Cub with 14 safety switching between you a spark on the plugs


This forum would be a heck of a lot busier!


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