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No Fire.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
- Zip Code: 45340
No Fire.
Hi, I have a 49 that I just brought from my brother, it was my dad's and I am in the process of restoring it. It looks great at this point but no spark. I verified wiring with the manual. I had the starter rebuilt so trouble shooting its much easier to turn over with my new 6v battery. I honed the points as best I could and set my timing at tdc. I am suspecting magneto or condenser, not sure where to go from here. I see the ignition switch just grounds the wire when you want to shut it off so I have just disconnected it from the mag to take the sw out of the loop. Turning over but I see nothing at my spark plugs. This ol girl has sat in a shed for about 3 years and when recently tried to start my brother got nothing, hence I bought and am giving it a go.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4974
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: AL (Southwest)
Re: No Fire.
You can remove the wire between the coil cap and the distributor cap where it connects to the center post of the dist cap. Hold the wire about a quarter inch from a good ground point, turn the engine, listen for the mag to click and you should get a nice blue spark as the fire jumps the gap to ground. No fire, suspect the magneto coil has quit.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
- Zip Code: 45340
Re: No Fire.
Thanks, went out and tried that, no spark what so ever. So magneto issue. Where do I get one of those or does it make more sense to take the opportunity to convert to a coil system?
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4974
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: AL (Southwest)
Re: No Fire.
I found the best price at McDonald Carb, they have a website. Forum Sponsors also can help you. Suggest you download and study the GSS 1012 manual. There's a bit more to changing the coil than just swapping parts. Best to get some help from someone who "has been there, done that". If the mag needs taking apart for service and cleaning a special puller is needed to remove the coupler. If you're going that "deep" it needs a full rebuild, it will pay off in the long run. A Cubfest is usually a good place to get some expert help. #1 instruction: don't turn the mag shaft with the new coil installed without having somewhere for the "fire" to discharge. If you do you'll probably destroy the coil and will be buying another one.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
- Zip Code: 45340
Re: No Fire.
great advice thank you!!
- Glen
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 6095
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
- Zip Code: 00000
- Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Wa.
Re: No Fire.
Hi,
Here are listings at TM Tractor for new points and condenser, and a new magneto coil, if you want to see them.
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/367fp.htm
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/713fp.htm
Here are listings at TM Tractor for new points and condenser, and a new magneto coil, if you want to see them.
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/367fp.htm
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/713fp.htm
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 8:23 am
- Zip Code: 44253
- Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub
C3 Mower
Hammond B3 for Rainy Days - Location: Medina Ohio
Re: No Fire.
staninlowerAL wrote:. . . If the mag needs taking apart for service and cleaning a special puller is needed to remove the coupler. . .
The special "Impulse Coupling Puller" is available from Rudy Calin at Rebuilt Mags for $39.95.
8431 Scandia Train N.
Forest Lake, MN 55025
PH. 651- 233-6655
E-mail: rudy@rebuiltmags.com
Web: Rebuiltmags.com
You need this tool for completely disassembling the mag which is a good idea to give it a good cleaning and lube job. Personally, I prefer to direct oil the mag rotor shaft bearings with the mag apart. I think I do a better job than can be done using the oil channels (with cotton wicking) that run below the bearings.
John M.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:29 pm
- Zip Code: 49343
- Tractors Owned: 48 Farmall Cub "Seen Yore Dobbin"
53 F-Cub W/Loader. - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Michigan
Re: No Fire.
Danno wrote:Thanks, went out and tried that, no spark what so ever. So magneto issue. Where do I get one of those or does it make more sense to take the opportunity to convert to a coil system?
Depends on how close you want to keep it to stock.
Does magneto " click/ trip" when being cranked? Usually easier to hear when hand cranking.
If it is tripping ( and timed to trip at t.d.c.) it may simply be the coil or condenser.
To each their own , but I don't mind having a magneto ,after the slow learning of how to hand start it. The starter is nice , but so is having a back up method of starting.
If on a tight budget and the magneto is shot ,then a conversion makes more sense.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
- Zip Code: 45340
Re: No Fire.
Thanks Guys, I do hear the magneto double trip when I am turning it by hand. Not sure if I am checking anything by doing this but I put my voltage meter on it and and I see about 15v it jumps to on every other click. cleaned the contact inside the coil cover as it was real oily, put back together and I can move my meter but I see nothing (spark) from lead out of coil to grd which i have about 1/4 from it while cranking. Understand I should see a blue spark here. Curious about the mag timing you speak of. I am simply putting the piston at tdc using the #1 cyl and mark on pulley shaft and then lining up my rotor to plug #1. Am i missing anything here? Would like to keep the mag and would consider sending it away for rebuild if thats my culprit. Having voltage out of it when turning it would mean its working? or should it be much more of a bang than my little meter is showing?
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 4974
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
- Zip Code: 36558
- Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: AL (Southwest)
Re: No Fire.
Oil inside the coil cover or dist cap probably means a bad seal. The rotor and pinion gear has timing marks. Search for timing a mag and you should find some recent posts on this. Download and study the GSS 1012 service manual for Cub J4 magneto and you will see all this in the maint. section on the magneto.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
- Zip Code: 45340
Re: No Fire.
I do have this manual, my father had it printed and in his service manual book back in the 50's.
The oil was covering the coil which sits on top of the magneto, it may have got there when I pulled it and held it upside down.
The oil was covering the coil which sits on top of the magneto, it may have got there when I pulled it and held it upside down.
- Rick Spivey
- Cub Pro
- Posts: 2776
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:07 pm
- Zip Code: 29518
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: SC, Cades 29518
Re: No Fire.
That much oil indicates possible over-oiling of the mag; it may interfere with the mag's ability to create a spark. Any spark you get from the coil should be bluish-white, and not yellow. To my knowledge the magneto coils are not filled with any oil, so I don't suspect that as the source of the oil. The oil cup on a good magneto should only receive one or two drops of oil in a year, unless you use your Cub very heavily. That magneto can be cleaned, carefully, to remove excess oil.
Rick Spivey
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 674
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
- Zip Code: 48843
- Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: No Fire.
Replacing a coil is not that big of a problem.
I would start by cleaning up the whole housing first. Get rid of any excess oil. I had a similar problem years ago. Cleaned it all out and it hasn't repeated. If all of your connections are clean and tight and you still have no spark, then I would replace the coil. It's only 1 wire, feeding it through into the distributor housing can be tricky but take you're time and you should be ok.
I've done it 3 times on my 48, and I'm no mechanic.
Good luck
I would start by cleaning up the whole housing first. Get rid of any excess oil. I had a similar problem years ago. Cleaned it all out and it hasn't repeated. If all of your connections are clean and tight and you still have no spark, then I would replace the coil. It's only 1 wire, feeding it through into the distributor housing can be tricky but take you're time and you should be ok.
I've done it 3 times on my 48, and I'm no mechanic.
Good luck
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
- Zip Code: 45340
Re: No Fire.
Thanks, I will give it a go.
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- 5+ Years
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:54 pm
- Zip Code: 45340
Re: No Fire.
Update, after sending the mag over to Rudy Calin over at rebuiltmags, she came back hot and I got fire!!
Put it back together last evening and she runs great! Thanks for all the help, can't wait to get the sickle bar mounted and put er to work.
Put it back together last evening and she runs great! Thanks for all the help, can't wait to get the sickle bar mounted and put er to work.
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