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Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

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Glen
10+ Years
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Posts: 6113
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby Glen » Tue May 02, 2017 8:05 pm

Hi,
It looks like in your pic that the Cub has an alternator. Look at the battery and see where the ground cable is attached. It probably goes to ground. If so, the positive cable would be going to the starter.
If you bought a coil for use without an external resistor, and the system is negative ground, attach the red wire on the left of your pic of the coil, if it comes from the ignition switch, to the positive connection on the new coil, and the wire going to the side of the Battery Ignition Unit to the negative connection on the new coil.
You can remove the white resistor, it would not be used with a coil not using an external resistor.
Hopefully you bought a new coil bracket too, the newer coils don't fit in the old bracket. The coil ignition wire, that goes to the distributor cap, probably needs a bigger size boot to fit the new coil. :)

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staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4975
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby staninlowerAL » Tue May 02, 2017 9:29 pm

Padre, think of it like this: If your battery is installed with neg post to ground, then the neg post of the coil goes to the points which is the ground when they are closed. (Electricity, stored in the battery, is always trying to travel to a ground.) That makes the electrical circuit correct and the battery electricity flows from positive + to negative - when the points close. The reason it does not kill your battery is there is no connection to ground when the ignition switch is OFF.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

padre
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Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby padre » Tue May 02, 2017 9:41 pm

Thanks, Glen and Stan, I had just typed a post which somehow disappeared into that place where all good posts go when you hit the wrong key. :surrender:

I was able to find the polarity on the old coil and following somewhat the logic of Stan, I was able to make the right connections. When I took off the old resistor tonight the wires easily reached the proper posts. I have not tackled the business of the bracket yet, the old one fits well enough for testing. Good News! the engine started immediately with the new coil. Took me less than half an hour tonight to make the shift from old coil to new.

Of course the real test will come with the mowing. Not sure that test will come tomorrow. We have another "First Alert Weather Day." We watched with concern Saturday when all our local networks were devoted exclusively to weather radar. We are 80 miles by highway from Canton, Texas. Fortunately for us the energy of the storm had largely dissipated by the time it got here.

Thanks to all for your help. I wish I had consulted this forum much earlier in the process--before I removed the fuel tank, installed new sediment cup and strainer, rebuilt the carburetor, etc. It is a wonder I did not do far more harm than good.

I will post one more time---if all goes well, just to confirm success. If all does not go well; I'LL BE BA A CK.

staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4975
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby staninlowerAL » Tue May 02, 2017 9:57 pm

Congrats, Padre. Nothing like the sweet taste of success to bolster one's confidence!!! :) :hattip:
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

padre
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Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby padre » Wed May 03, 2017 10:30 am

Even better news this morning. I mowed for over an hour--heavy grass. Engine never sputtered, ran great. I quit because 1) weather getting darker, 2) at my age I work shorter hours, 3) no more mowing needed today.

I want to thank everyone who responded. All turned out to be helpful.

We can chalk up another "Success" to this thread. :hattip:

Waif
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53 F-Cub W/Loader.
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Location: Michigan

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby Waif » Wed May 03, 2017 2:59 pm

:tractor:

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Glen
10+ Years
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Posts: 6113
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:33 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby Glen » Wed May 03, 2017 6:00 pm

Hi,
Good news that it runs better.
Here is the listing for the coil bracket at TM Tractor. This bracket is supposed to fit the hole spacing on Cub, I've never bought one from them though. Since you bought the coil at another place, I don't know if it's the same diameter as this bracket is made for. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/693fp.htm

padre
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Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby padre » Wed May 03, 2017 8:14 pm

Thanks, Glen. Actually the new coil came with a bracket and bolt that looks like it will fit fine. I've just been using the existing bracket (not "closed") because I was anxious to test out the engine with new coil. For that matter, I think I could use it this way--which I expect would be heresy to true "Cub-a-philes," but mine is strictly a working tractor.

I truly appreciate the help I have received on this forum.

staninlowerAL
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4975
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby staninlowerAL » Wed May 03, 2017 8:24 pm

padre wrote:...I think I could use it this way--which I expect would be heresy to true "Cub-a-philes," but mine is strictly a working tractor....
IMHO that's the best way to look at it. It suits your needs and you are satisfied with what it does. (I don't have anything that would pass the "correct police" inspection but I'm having a lot of enjoyment with my "toys".) :)
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

Jim Becker
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Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby Jim Becker » Wed May 03, 2017 10:43 pm

Whichever bracket you use, just make sure it is clamped securely so it maintains a good ground. The coil shell has to be grounded to work properly.

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Dale Finch
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:34 am
Zip Code: 27517
Tractors Owned: '51 Cub #140966 "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
'55 Cub #187541 "Betty" with Fast Hitch
'55 Cub #190482 "Ben" with Woods 42 mower
'55 Cub #191739 "Bertha" with Woods 42 mower
'56 Cub #194370 "Boris" with Mott Flail mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby Dale Finch » Thu May 04, 2017 6:41 am

Jim Becker wrote:Whichever bracket you use, just make sure it is clamped securely so it maintains a good ground. The coil shell has to be grounded to work properly.

Jim, is this correct? I was totally unaware, and since it has 2 wires, just "assumed"one of those provided ground. I have even painted a coil black, then clamped it down to a painted distributor, not cleaning bolt area of paint for a ground. :big say what:
Dale Finch
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Jim Becker
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Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby Jim Becker » Thu May 04, 2017 10:34 am

Dale Finch wrote:
Jim Becker wrote:Whichever bracket you use, just make sure it is clamped securely so it maintains a good ground. The coil shell has to be grounded to work properly.

Jim, is this correct? I was totally unaware, and since it has 2 wires, just "assumed"one of those provided ground. I have even painted a coil black, then clamped it down to a painted distributor, not cleaning bolt area of paint for a ground. :big say what:

I overstated. The ground end of the secondary coil has to connect somewhere. The 3 possibilities are:
1) The small negative lug.
2) The small positive lug.
3) The shell.

If the secondary grounds to the shell, a grounded shell is critical. In practice, you won't find a secondary grounded to the shell. That approach hasn't been used since the very early days of gas engines. If the secondary connects to either small lug, the shell is for the most part just a container and grounding isn't critical. Between the other 2 options, connecting to the positive lug would be for a positive ground coil, so any coil you buy today is nearly guaranteed to be connected to the negative lug.

Even when the shell doesn't provide the ground for the secondary, it does provide some electrical shielding. The effectiveness of that function is improved by having it grounded. This won't have any effect on how the engine runs, but a poor ground could contribute to electrical interference with other things. So it really should be grounded.

User avatar
Dale Finch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 6645
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:34 am
Zip Code: 27517
Tractors Owned: '51 Cub #140966 "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
'55 Cub #187541 "Betty" with Fast Hitch
'55 Cub #190482 "Ben" with Woods 42 mower
'55 Cub #191739 "Bertha" with Woods 42 mower
'56 Cub #194370 "Boris" with Mott Flail mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: Engine starts runs good for a while then "cuts out"

Postby Dale Finch » Thu May 04, 2017 12:30 pm

Thanks! Good to know!
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