Valve/block issue - update

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Ken (48 Cub)
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Valve/block issue - update

Postby Ken (48 Cub) » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:13 pm

Working on the 57 lowboy. Tractor runs good with very minor blow by until I engage the PTO with C3 belly mower attached. The valves immediately chatter loudly and there is major blow by. The tractor also gets very hot and will die unless I disengage the PTO.

So I decided the remove the valve cover and take a look...I did not like what I found.
Can someone post a picture of what the block should look like here?

IMG_20170228_162421764.jpg

IMG_20170228_162421764.jpg

IMG_20170228_162438640.jpg

IMG_20170228_162445011.jpg


The engine casting code is - 11-27-C I think.
IMG_20170228_154659395 - Copy.jpg


Anybody ever seen this kind of damage before? Is this block junk?

I tore the engine down today to get a closer look. NO metal pieces in the oil pan. So some cleaned up their mess. This damage looks intentional to me. The holes are very uniform. A PO modification maybe... The engine turns over smoothly with the hand crank. A mystery I guess. :)

Here are a couple more pictures of the valves and head.

IMG_20170301_133348165.jpg

IMG_20170301_151652498_HDR.jpg
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IMG_20170228_162411324.jpg
Last edited by Ken (48 Cub) on Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill V in Md
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Re: Valve/block issue

Postby Bill V in Md » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:29 pm

Ken, this photo is from my 1948 Cub engine.
Valves_Seal Plug1.jpg
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Re: Valve/block issue

Postby Eugene » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:37 pm

Ken (48 Cub) wrote:Anybody ever seen this kind of damage before? Is this block junk?
No to first question. Yes to second question.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Ken (48 Cub)
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Re: Valve/block issue

Postby Ken (48 Cub) » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:39 pm

Thanks Bill and Eugene...that's what I was afraid of.
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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:30 pm

Sometimes it is hard to tell if a part is damaged from looking at a picture, heck sometimes even with the part in hand, particularly when looking at the jagged edges that were made as part of a casting. In this case, the holes are there for oil to drain back to the pan. Whether some critical material has broken loose is hard to tell. Are there any jagged edges where something broke? Most of the edges look to me like they have the original glyptal coating in place. Besides, both holes look about the same, seems unlikely both would have similar damage.

I am not convinced anything is wrong with this block. In any case, I don't see how this would explain your current problem. Are you sure the chatter is from the valves? Exactly what symptom are you seeing of overheating? How quickly does it happen?

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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby BigBill » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:53 pm

Looks like the sand casting bled into the castiron block in that area. Maybe this one missed the deburing process at the factory.
In our drag race engines we use a handgrinder with a rotary file to remove those sharp ragged edges to improve the return oil flow.

Ot,, when I was working for American motors I had one of those Mr machine 390 4 speed cars come in on warranty. Running very bad with very low oil pressure running on seven cylinders.
I dropped the oil pan right away playing on my gut feeling. I found pieces of a cracked lifter in the oil pan. I inspected the camshaft and all was good. I installed a new lifter and off she went. I expected this 390 to fly. Great looking car but it was a dog.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby Shane Nelson » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:46 am

I agree with Jim, not sure there's anything wrong with your block. I can't find a picture of the engine on the Cub I recently rebuilt with all the components in it but I did find this one and the holes look close to what you have.
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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby tst » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:15 am

some castings are not as nice as others, there is nothing wrong with that block

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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby Clip » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:18 am

I've studied the pictures for three days now and can't find anything different than my block. My block looks almost exactly the same, with rough edges from the casting process. Wish I had some pictures from last time I had the valve cover off.

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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby Gary Dotson » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:27 am

I too was questioning whether that was damage or not. First off, I can't envision how a block would receive damage of this nature and then to have the same damage in two locations is just a bit too much. I'm not sure the drain back holes are usually quite so large, so it looks a bit odd but I don't see it as damage.

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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby Waif » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:53 am

Good oil pressure?
Is it for sure valve train noise?
Were compression tests run before tear down?

Adding a load and blow by increasing hints of rings or cylinder issues ....maybe.

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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby Bigdog » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:59 am

Wrist pin noise or possibly rod noise?
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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby inairam » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:26 am

The hole are cast in oil returns, not a mod or defect. I have to admit I was concerned when I first say them.
Last edited by inairam on Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby ricky racer » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:15 pm

Jim Becker wrote:Sometimes it is hard to tell if a part is damaged from looking at a picture, heck sometimes even with the part in hand, particularly when looking at the jagged edges that were made as part of a casting. In this case, the holes are there for oil to drain back to the pan. Whether some critical material has broken loose is hard to tell. Are there any jagged edges where something broke? Most of the edges look to me like they have the original glyptal coating in place. Besides, both holes look about the same, seems unlikely both would have similar damage.

I am not convinced anything is wrong with this block. In any case, I don't see how this would explain your current problem. Are you sure the chatter is from the valves? Exactly what symptom are you seeing of overheating? How quickly does it happen?


I have seen this before and agree with Jim, I see nothing wrong with the block. The reason you didn't find any material in the oil pan is because its been like that since it came from the factory.
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Re: Valve/block issue - update

Postby Alan Riley » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:14 pm

Here's a picture of my block. It has the same ragged edges on the casting.

Cub block.jpg
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