In frame hone and rings

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razerface
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In frame hone and rings

Postby razerface » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:16 pm

I am figuring out what to do with this cub. It is a rusty 49 that i have less then $400 in so far. I got the timing close enough today for it to run, but will not start by itself,,but must be pulled to start. It pops right off when pulled as soon as it turns over.

I drove around for a while. Clutch needs replaced but all gears work. It quit smoking but does not barely have enough power to take off in high gear. I noticed bubbles and such around the head, so we pulled the head to see everything. Head gasket is junk and the middle 2 cylinders are not good. Looks like it was stored with those two pistons down, and maybe some water in the cyl. Last guy gave up trying to make it run, so he must have got it unstuck, then gave up.

If i put new rings in, the cylinder walls will tear them up pronto. Is it possible to drop the oil pan, remove those offending pistons,,hone smooth, replace pistons with new rings and go? Without removing the crank or engine from tractor?

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Shane Nelson
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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby Shane Nelson » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:19 pm

If those 2 cylinders are that bad honing them will not fix your problems. You need to mic everything and see what you have. It's best to do it right the first time and not have to do it twice. If you have to send the engine to a machine shop and then buy a kit you will have more than $400 in the engine alone but you will know what you have when done.
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razerface
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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby razerface » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:51 pm

I just called a machine shop and they want between 1500 and 2000 to do all cyl,valves and bearings. Tractor is not worth that. I see piston kits on fleabay i can buy under 200. The valves on one cylinder will need done. Are you talking just have someone bore the holes and i do everything else?

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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:26 pm

Valve seats could be pitted beyond repair, and need to be replaced, a common problem, if water got in. Condition of the bore, would be the determining factor, for what machine shop service is needed.
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razerface
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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby razerface » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:53 pm

So if a bore is honed to where there are still "spots" that do not clean up,,will it still run ok with new rings? Say, 85-90% cleaned up with no bad spots reaching around the cylinder,,just spots. Rings go over the openings in 2 stroke engines all the time right?

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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby Glen » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:34 pm

Hi,
I guess you already have the engine apart, but part of the low power problem could have been the ignition timing. Cubs need the timing checked with a timing light, like cars with distributors in the past.
Late timing makes the engine have less power. :)

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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby ricky racer » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:31 pm

I honestly think that using a hone like the one pictured below would allow you to take the bores out to the next oversize. Using course stones to quickly remove the bulk of the material and fine stones once you get close to size. I've used this style of hone many times over the years, not honing engine cylinders but fitting large pins to bores on large machinery. As ScottyD'sdad said, the valve seats may be toast too and will need to be recut but with the proper equipment, that can be done too without pulling the engine. Most guys here may disagree with me but if you can't afford to have the engine machined at a machine shop, what have you got to loose. Check the crank to see what shape it's in. If it needs ground, you'll have to pull the engine anyway.

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razerface
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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby razerface » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:01 pm

Yes, the valve on the worst cylinder #3, will need fixed too. The seat is in bad shape. I believe i can touch up hone #2 cylinder with new rings and it will be fine. The #3 cylinder is not going to clean up as quickly.

I think i may try it. That looks like an expensive hone ricky! I may see if they are rentable somewhere.

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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby Eugene » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:24 pm

Since you need to replace the clutch, pull the engine and put it on an engine stand or the bench. This will make it easier to work on the engine.
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razerface
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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby razerface » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:19 am

Eugene wrote:Since you need to replace the clutch, pull the engine and put it on an engine stand or the bench. This will make it easier to work on the engine.


I just realized this myself, that it must be seperated, while staring at the tractor. I think though, if the engine fix does not work, I don't want to bother with the extra labor and cost of the clutch.

I have a lead on another tractor locally. I may put the money toward that purchase instead, and sell this one. I should be able to recover my money by parting it out? I do not know about the demand for these parts around here. I would let it set here anyway using it for parts until i get a tractor going.

Decisions decisions! I have to wait to go back to work monday to get some measuring tools from work to start checking bore sizes to get a better idea. I am an impatient person, so that is already bugging me to wait. I know,,impatient and this kind of work don't really mix, and i dont need the tractor until spring,,,,but y'all know how it is to start a new project!

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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby Eugene » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:00 am

$400- is in the price range for a complete parts tractor. My opinion, I would sell the entire tractor, rather than trying to part it out. Parting out the tractor will take a considerable amount of time, and you will have parts left over, unsold.

In the Midwest you can purchase a work ready farm tractor in the $1500- range. That's not knowing what you need a tractor for and it's intended usage.

Back to the Cub. I never kept tract of my expenses. I'm fairly sure I have over $2000- in each Cub. Off setting the expense is that I put more work hours on my Cubs every year than my larger tractors. If you put $2000- into repairs, the tractor should last you another 50 years.

Sometimes the up front expenses seem excessive. But you need to consider the long term.
I have an excuse. CRS.

razerface
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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby razerface » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:28 am

Eugene wrote:
Sometimes the up front expenses seem excessive. But you need to consider the long term.


I understand that and agree. I just do not think this is the tractor to put that money into. I took the chance i could get it running for just some labor and small money when i bought it. The tractor is brown,,no paint remaining except under some grease on the engine. If it was reasonably good looking, cosmetically i would not be so timid to rebuild the engine,,but i have no wish to tear down and totally restore one. It can be ugly if it is cheap enough,,but if i have to put money into it, it needs to be reasonably nice looking too, instead of total rust everywhere.

This tractor is great for someone to restore. The rust is mainly surface,,,not deep pits everywhere,,but it is time for it to get restored before it goes further,,,or if it ran good, i would use it ugly and let it rust away. I think it would still outlast me!

I bought it for a cheap tractor to pull a roller i made from the back roller of an asphalt roller and a sickle bar mower to trim the neighbors pond edges. My neighbor is a little older then me, and can no longer hand mow his pond edges. I fly ultralight airplanes and need to roll my runway every spring. My panzer tractor will not pull the roller, so i decided a cub could pull it,,,and like you guys,,i like older stuff. That is how i got here.

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Re: In frame hone and rings

Postby ParlowMillFarm » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:40 pm

Razerface,
I'm going through the process of making a $400 dollar machine something too. A couple of observations, The $2000 rebuild will give you a reliable machine that is marketable - because someone who wants a working tractor will want it, and someone who wants a restoration project will want it.

Don't worry about paint, paint is cheap. Crankshafts cost money. The other difference - it's easier to run a cub with no paint than with no crankshaft.

John


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