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Magneto fix-up
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Magneto fix-up
I was getting intermittent spark and could not remember when I last replaced points and condenser.
I removed the magneto and found too much grease under the rotor, spread all over the cam, covering the points, etc. So obviously at whatever stage of expertise I was at when I last put in points was not too high.
Also a little scoring at the rotor tip. Also the coil is original.
Also noticed that the insides of the magneto were "well oiled" maybe I tried to shove a pint of oil down the oil cap.
I read the Blue Ribbon Service Manual and the Operators Manual and feel the need for some guidance on lubication of the magneto.
Questions:
Should I rinse out the mag with kerosene to remove oil?
About how much oil to squirt down the oil cup?
What is the type and amount of grease to use on the breaker arm?
What type of grease and how much to put under the rotor?
John
I removed the magneto and found too much grease under the rotor, spread all over the cam, covering the points, etc. So obviously at whatever stage of expertise I was at when I last put in points was not too high.
Also a little scoring at the rotor tip. Also the coil is original.
Also noticed that the insides of the magneto were "well oiled" maybe I tried to shove a pint of oil down the oil cap.
I read the Blue Ribbon Service Manual and the Operators Manual and feel the need for some guidance on lubication of the magneto.
Questions:
Should I rinse out the mag with kerosene to remove oil?
About how much oil to squirt down the oil cup?
What is the type and amount of grease to use on the breaker arm?
What type of grease and how much to put under the rotor?
John
- John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Magneto fix-up
Grease for the points, a very tiny amount of high temperature grease on the block. As to oiling, only a drop or two of oil every few months. The oil cup feeds a wick that oils the bearings, if you dip or flush in kerosene it will dilute the oil in the wick.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!
you are part of the problem!!!
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Magneto fix-up
John,
Thanks for the quick reply. So what are they referring to here on page 31 of the 1950 Owner's manual?
"Hold the magneto at an angle of approximately 45 degrees, and flush the impulse coupling and magneto drive chamber with kerosene. During
warm weather, oil the impulse coupling liberally with light oil such as cream separator or sewing machine oil. Do not use oil during cold weather (below 32° F.). Flushing with kerosene is all that is required."
John
Thanks for the quick reply. So what are they referring to here on page 31 of the 1950 Owner's manual?
"Hold the magneto at an angle of approximately 45 degrees, and flush the impulse coupling and magneto drive chamber with kerosene. During
warm weather, oil the impulse coupling liberally with light oil such as cream separator or sewing machine oil. Do not use oil during cold weather (below 32° F.). Flushing with kerosene is all that is required."
John
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C3 Mower
Hammond B3 for Rainy Days - Location: Medina Ohio
Re: Magneto fix-up
ParlowMillFarm wrote:John, Thanks for the quick reply. So what are they referring to here on page 31 of the 1950 Owner's manual?
"Hold the magneto at an angle of approximately 45 degrees, and flush the impulse coupling and magneto drive chamber with kerosene. During
warm weather, oil the impulse coupling liberally with light oil such as cream separator or sewing machine oil. Do not use oil during cold weather (below 32° F.). Flushing with kerosene is all that is required."
John
This part of the magneto coupling is the external part that has "two pins" that are driven from the rotating drive in the magneto drive chamber. I believe that the kerosene flush cleans the magneto drive. The only wear points are the two drive pins on the coupling. Light oil on the impulse coupling, in the summer will help reduce the wear. In the winter, the kerosene is probably sufficient lubrication. Personally, I put a light coating of grease on the pins before I install the magneto on the engine.
John M.
P.S. You should also put a little grease on the teeth of the small rotor drive pinion. The same hi temp grease that you used on the breaker point drive lobe. Also, I put a small amount of grease on the stationary pin that the rotor spins on. Only put a small amount of grease directly on any "wear points". Filling a whole chamber full of grease doesn't do any good. It's like the old days when some fellas would fill the entire wheel hub with grease. All that was needed was to force the old grease out of the wheel bearing and pack with new grease.
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- 10+ Years
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- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Magneto fix-up
OK , I got it. Thanks to both Johns for the advice, now waiting for parts.
- Mag Man
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Re: Magneto fix-up
I agree with John M, Most likely the grease in the cap came from to light of grease and too much in rotor gear. I have cheap grease in shop for equipment and in summer it will turn to oil and run some. I always used grease with molly for my mags. A bit of carb cleaner on a soft cloth with coil removed and turn internal rotor and wipe the chrome like surface and where the coil core comes in contact to remove excess oil. And you should be OK with the cub and World.
- Glen
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Re: Magneto fix-up
Hi,
I don't know if you noticed when you took the magneto off the engine, if there was oil leaking from the oil seal on the governor gear. A leaking seal will let motor oil get into a Battery Ignition unit, not sure if it gets in a magneto too.
I don't know if you noticed when you took the magneto off the engine, if there was oil leaking from the oil seal on the governor gear. A leaking seal will let motor oil get into a Battery Ignition unit, not sure if it gets in a magneto too.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Magneto fix-up
Mag Man,
All is OK with the world? I dropped the magneto and smashed the coil cover - costs more than the rotor.. .. Well the money goes to a site sponsor, so it is not all bad.
Glen, - oil seal on governor gear? (Are you kidding! a guy who drops his magneto and smashes the coil cover is even remotely going to know what that means? ) Perhaps you can refer me to a page in one of the manuals so I can read about it.
All is OK with the world? I dropped the magneto and smashed the coil cover - costs more than the rotor.. .. Well the money goes to a site sponsor, so it is not all bad.
Glen, - oil seal on governor gear? (Are you kidding! a guy who drops his magneto and smashes the coil cover is even remotely going to know what that means? ) Perhaps you can refer me to a page in one of the manuals so I can read about it.
- Mag Man
- 10+ Years
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- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:34 pm
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Re: Magneto fix-up
Did you already By a new one? and as far as rotor goes if the gear is good I have Refurbished them, LOL Sorry you dropped it I have done a lot of things in my time rebuilding that would bring a grown man to tears also.
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- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Magneto fix-up
Hey Mag Man,
Thanks for the offer. I thought about that about 2 or 3 minutes after a pushed the purchase button. (after all, you are "Mag Man")
Wanted to check the #1 piston setting to make sure it was tdc. - didn't want to get this magneto 180 degrees out of position you know - after all I have done that once already)
Put my finger over the spark plug hole and hand cranked the engine. nothing - no push no pull.
Looks like I have other problems besides spark. Will start by taking off valve cover. Hoping it's a stuck valve.
John
Thanks for the offer. I thought about that about 2 or 3 minutes after a pushed the purchase button. (after all, you are "Mag Man")
Wanted to check the #1 piston setting to make sure it was tdc. - didn't want to get this magneto 180 degrees out of position you know - after all I have done that once already)
Put my finger over the spark plug hole and hand cranked the engine. nothing - no push no pull.
Looks like I have other problems besides spark. Will start by taking off valve cover. Hoping it's a stuck valve.
John
- Glen
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Re: Magneto fix-up
Hi,
The oil seal is right there at the drive that drives the magneto, it is the round part around the drive. The drive is the end of the governor gear. Here is a pic below, and a page from the Cub parts book. The seal is number 19 in the pic.
The 3rd link shows the governor, the gear is number 28 in the pic, you can see the drive on the end of it. The gear has a flat area for the seal to run on.
4th link is a new seal at TM Tractor, if you want to see one.
http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-07.jpg
http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-08.jpg
http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-18.jpg
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/gv/436fp.htm
The oil seal is right there at the drive that drives the magneto, it is the round part around the drive. The drive is the end of the governor gear. Here is a pic below, and a page from the Cub parts book. The seal is number 19 in the pic.
The 3rd link shows the governor, the gear is number 28 in the pic, you can see the drive on the end of it. The gear has a flat area for the seal to run on.
4th link is a new seal at TM Tractor, if you want to see one.
http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-07.jpg
http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-08.jpg
http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-18.jpg
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/gv/436fp.htm
Last edited by Glen on Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Magneto fix-up
Glen, I checked the bottom of the opening for oil and found what looked like some grey cruddy grease.
Am waiting for parts to reinstall the magneto.
I'm more concerned that my finger pops off of #4 cyl when I pulled the plug, but not #1 and all my valves appear to be moving.
Yikes.
I have an old fashioned compression tester that I was able to use to determine that the compression was between 60 and 90 lbs for #4. Not too easy to read the cloudy plastic. I have to get a better tester before I take reading that will send me into deep depression.
Am waiting for parts to reinstall the magneto.
I'm more concerned that my finger pops off of #4 cyl when I pulled the plug, but not #1 and all my valves appear to be moving.
Yikes.
I have an old fashioned compression tester that I was able to use to determine that the compression was between 60 and 90 lbs for #4. Not too easy to read the cloudy plastic. I have to get a better tester before I take reading that will send me into deep depression.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 164
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:56 pm
- Zip Code: 02738
- Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub
1964 JD1010 - Location: Marion, Massachusetts
Re: Magneto fix-up
A couple developments:
Got the wrong Magneto coil cover, the one I got is too big. I checked the parts catalog and ordered 251502R11.
The magneto is a J4, #023180. ( Cub is #20980)
Also did compression test: #1 -10, #2 - 60, #3 - 100, #4 - 95
Could someone please give advise on magneto cover?
Got the wrong Magneto coil cover, the one I got is too big. I checked the parts catalog and ordered 251502R11.
The magneto is a J4, #023180. ( Cub is #20980)
Also did compression test: #1 -10, #2 - 60, #3 - 100, #4 - 95
Could someone please give advise on magneto cover?
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Re: Magneto fix-up
ParlowMillFarm wrote:A couple developments:
Got the wrong Magneto coil cover, the one I got is too big. I checked the parts catalog and ordered 251502R11.
The magneto is a J4, #023180. ( Cub is #20980)
Also did compression test: #1 -10, #2 - 60, #3 - 100, #4 - 95
Could someone please give advise on magneto cover?
Suggest you contact McDonald Carb for the mag coil cover. Looks like the compression on #1 is to the point that if a valve lash adjustment does not help, time to pull the head and see what the valves look like. Could be anything from a carbon build up to a burned valve/seat/etc. Either of the latter will probably involve some machine shop type work. Good Luck. Stan
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)
- Mag Man
- 10+ Years
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- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:34 pm
- Location: Central NY
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Re: Magneto fix-up
That is a good part # for a coil cap. maybe they just sent one for an H4 does it have two holes or 4 ?
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