BIG Problems with Touch Control

[Bigschuss]

I posted last spring about a problem I was having with a lack of power with my 1958 Fast-hitch. The symptoms were a lack of power combined with white smoke pouring from the oil filler and Hy-tran leaking from the touch control. All summer long I troubleshot the problem and did some reading and tried to diagnose the issue with no luck. I did fix the leaks.

The problem has only gotten worse and I'd like to ask for help one last time before I send the touch control unit off to be rebuilt.

The tractor runs, starts, and drives very nicely. The problem begins when I hook up to an implement and try to raise or lower it. For the first 5 minutes everything is fine. Then, I lose all ability to raise or lower anything. When I activate the touch control, the implement will lower, but then the tractor keeps trying to lower the implement. By that I mean, even when the implement is lowered all the way, the touch control still cycles and whines. I lose all power, and then the white smoke pours from the oil filler. I get the same symptoms when trying to raise an implement.

The final symptom is this. When pulling an implement (such as disk harrows) where no lifting or lowering is involved, I get the same symptoms when the tractor is under a load. As soon as the disks gets a good bite and the governor throttles up, the touch control sounds like it engages, I lose all power, and I get the white smoke.

I don't know much about the touch control unit, but I have read here on this board that rebuilding it is a job for professionals unless you know what you are doing and have a good manual. If anybody can lend any advice I would appreciate it. I'm not really sure what's going on. But I do know that my tractor, which I once used for all kinds of jobs around the house and garden, is now basically only good for pulling the wagon around the yard.

Thanks in advance,
Blair in Savoy, MA

[Bigdog]

Bill, I think I'd pull the hydraulic pump and check it out rather than the touch control unit itself. It sounds like you may have issues with the pump. It is a fairly easy rebuild.

[Matt Kirsch]

The white smoke has me baffled. That generally means a coolant leak in my book... antifreeze getting into the crankcase.

What does the smoke smell like? Sweet? Burned? Exhaust?

I think the touch control may need to be rebuilt, personally. When the rockshaft gets to the selected position, it's supposed to shut off the valve. Sounds like that valve isn't shutting off, the pump is "deadheading" and you're getting blowby with the tractor lugged way down.

BTW, you're not "losing all power." It's there, just being soaked up by the deadheaded hydraulic pump.

[allenlook]

Dude,

What is a deadheaded pump?

[Bigdog]

Allen, deadheading occurs when a pump is trying to force hydraulic fluid into a blocked path.

[Russ Leggitt]

Hi Bigschuss,

One experement you might want to try is to get a blank plate and gasket
for the pump port. Remove the hyd pump and place the blank and gasket
over the port and run the tractor and see what happens. Such as to see
if you get any white smoke loss of power etc. While you have the pump
off you can inspect it also. I think it just might be possible that the pump
is forcing some fluid into the crankcase.

The rebuild of the pump and hyd is not so bad if you have the correct
tools. I have an early 1950 in the shop now trying to get the pressure
release valve out. It takes a special tool. The IH shop no longer has
this tool. However, I now know how to make one.

Please keep us posted as to your plans and results.

[Buzzard Wing]

Deadhead, I like that.

I am not too wise about the Cub hydraulics, but it sounds like the bypass valve is sticking/broken. Since the pump runs with the engine, it needs a way to 'vent' the unused power. I don't have the manual handy, so I don't know if it is in the pump or the TC unit (that's my guess).

My TC is leaking and it is soon to come off the tractor for a 'rebuild' so I will know more about such things in a couple of weeks. Possibly we could hook up at the northeast cubfest??

[Bigschuss]

Matt,

The smoke pouring out of the filler really doesn't have a smell. In fact it acts more like steam than smoke. It doesn't linger in the air like smoke does. It disappates very quickly. Also, I'm not losing coolant.

[allenlook]

Steam with no smell? That's a baffler. I remember a few years back (and $7,000 ago) that the Porsche would have a sweet smell to the exhaust if I backed up through it. That was the propylene glycol in my exhaust from the blown head gasket! Ouch.

If you're getting steam, where else would water come from, other than from the coolant supply? If your propylene glycol percentage is low enough, then the steam might not have that signature smell to it, but I still can't imagine where else water would be coming from except for your cooling system...

If you had water in your oil pan, is it possible that it would sit on the bottom of the pan as the oil floated on top of it, and then maybe the tractor is jerking when you come under a load and the water is sloshing up onto something hot and creating steam? Is your oil clear and water free?