Installing valve keeps

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inairam
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Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
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Location: Glen Mills PA

Installing valve keeps

Postby inairam » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:20 am

From a compression check on my '49 I saw #3 was low. after pulling the value cover plate I saw one of the springs was cocked a little. After some probing with a screw driver I saw the was only one keep. I was messing with this one and off for a few weeks. I bought a new tool ( the big "c" shaped tool) and an old flat head tool from ebay. I just can not figure out how to keep the sping up and and put in the keeps. I have been reluctant to pull the head up to this point. Any suggestions?
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

Larry in WNY
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby Larry in WNY » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:02 am

You need a small engine valve spring compression tool from Napa. It will just fit within the space to get the springs compressed. The large C type is for larger engines and those with overhead valves.
Larry

ScottyD'sdad
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:05 am

You have to pull the head, to replace the keeper. The top of the clamp pushes down on the top of the valve, and the bottom, pushes up on the spring. The bottom of the clamp has to be shaped correctly, to fit in and lift the spring. The Craftsman one, has the right shaped spring lifter. While the head is off, I'd recommend cleaning and lapping all the valves, since it probably wasn't done since Eisenhower was president.
Ed
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Eugene
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby Eugene » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:11 pm

The big C shaped tool, valve spring compressor, may or may not work. If the frame is to tall, use some wood blocking on the top of the block.

We use to change valve guide seals by putting the cylinder to TDC then applying 120 lbs air pressure to the cylinder - spark plug adapter. Air pressure kept the valves closed while removing the valve actuating mechanism and replacing the seals.

Never tried it on a Cub. Might work if you have the small, correct, valve spring compressor.
I have an excuse. CRS.

inairam
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Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby inairam » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:28 pm

I used Clothesline line rope in the spark plug hole to hold the valve down and this tool. The top and bottom can be independently adjusted for width. There was a member who recommended grease to hold the keeps in place and on the screwdriver to place the keeps. Great tip. I first adjusted the values to .013 per manual and after more reading of old posts re adjusted to .015. Another compression check and number three is still low but now I know it is not the valves.
Attachments
valve tool.jpg
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

ScottyD'sdad
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1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
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Circle of Safety: Y
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:34 am

Could still be the valves, causing the low compression. May need to be lapped, or even ground, to get a good seal. I recommend a valve job, on almost every cub, since it was last done, during the 60's, or maybe the 70's. I've seen some pretty rough looking valves and seats.

Ed
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inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby inairam » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:37 am

Do you think I should replace the valve train ($140 hamilton bob) or just relap #3?
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

ScottyD'sdad
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Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:57 am

inairam wrote:Do you think I should replace the valve train ($140 hamilton bob) or just relap #3?


Can't tell without seeing it. That valve and guide could be worn unevenly, from (who knows, how long) running with uneven pressure on the spring. I'd lap all the valves, since the head is off, at a minimum. Real answer depends on what you find.
Ed
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Eugene
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby Eugene » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:02 am

Agree with Ed.

My opinion. In addition to a valve job, I would put the engine on the bench and plastigage the bearings, measure pistons and bore. Might as well spend more money and time, and end up with a rebuilt engine.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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KETCHAM
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby KETCHAM » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ HOW DOES IT RUN???? If it runs good...leave it alone or wait till winter for a tear down....You can spend a lot of $$$$ real quick...compression test??? weak valve springs??? Time and money....on a rebuild...Kevin :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
47 CUB[Krusty] 49 CUB[Ollie] 50 H-- PLOWS DISCS MOWERS AND lots more stuff!!Life is to short -Have fun now cause ya ain't gonna be here long!!!!

inairam
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby inairam » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:45 am

the other cylinders were about 100 to 110. it felt weak this spring which is when I found the keep was missing on the #5 valve. on cylinder 3. I am not sure a complete rebuild is warrented
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

ScottyD'sdad
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Posts: 7270
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:45 pm

If you have decent oil pressure, and are not burning excessive oil, I'd go with the valve lapping. I try to keep my fleet running, without spending thousands. If it has enough power to do what we need it to do, it's out in the work force. When it can't hold up it's end of the bargain, then it gets a rebuild. Most of my tractors were in the $500 range, so they need a wide range of service, before going to work.

Ed
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Matt Kirsch
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:08 pm

Even with all of this it won't hurt a thing to get the correct small engine valve spring compressor, put the keeper back in, and give it a spin to see if that fixes your compression problem.

If it does, it saves you a bunch of work. If it doesn't you're only out the cost of the tool and the keeper.

inairam
5+ Years
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Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby inairam » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:43 pm

I got the tool and the keeps are back and all of the valves are adjusted to 0.015 and that is when I did the compression check
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Winfield Dave
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Re: Installing valve keeps

Postby Winfield Dave » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:06 am

inairam wrote:I first adjusted the values to .013 per manual and after more reading of old posts re adjusted to .015. Another compression check and number three is still low but now I know it is not the valves.
What is low?
Dave
"More gold has been mined from the thoughts of men than has been taken from the earth." -- Napoleon Hill


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