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rust tank copper ground rod?

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jakeesspoo
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rust tank copper ground rod?

Postby jakeesspoo » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:23 pm

when making my electrolysis tank do you think using copper ground rod would work better than rebar? also when and where do you get rid of the electrolyte? can you just dump it? and how long will it effectively work. Im assuming it will freexe during the winter... Jake

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Postby beaconlight » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:48 pm

Jake you use the iron in the ground rods in the process. The freezing temp will depend on the concentration of baking soda or tri sodum phospate. If you have the tank working there will be temp rise so that colder temps can be encountered with out freezing. Baking soda is an acid neutralizer so as long as it isn't into a stream or very alkaline soil I don't see a problem though I would dilute it a bit with fresh water to spread it around. With the trisodium I would spread that around a bit too and not where it will readily enter a water way because excessive Phosporus in rivers is a polutant. Phosporus is an ingrediant in fertilizer so it is possibly helpful is not execssive concentrated. I have 1200 feet of grass between my garage and the pond so i don't feel I have a problem with the small relative amount from a tank. I would have excessive algie bloom if too much phohorus. P is the 3rd ingrediant in fertilizer as in 5 10 5 Nitrogen Potassium Phosporus.


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Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:50 pm

If by copper ground bar you are referring to the type telephone and ground companies as well as electricians drive in ground, those are steel with a copper coating. copper is to soft to drive.
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jakeesspoo
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thanks

Postby jakeesspoo » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:46 pm

thanks guys Ill just use the rebar...very anxious to get this project started, just trying to find some time...

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Postby Rudi » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:06 pm

Jake:

TSP is available at most hardware stores such as True Value, Home Depot, Lowe's, and here in Canada at Home Hardware, Canadian Tire, Kent, Home Depot and other fine establishments.

Also, I generally just drain my tank onto my lawn... you should see the grass.... grows like crazy. Where I haven't been able to get any to grow in the last 4 years, I now have to mow it a little more often than the rest of the lawn......


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Postby Jim Becker » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:36 pm

A product listed as "TSP substitute" is starting to show up in the hardware stores. I don't know if it works or not. Last time I went after some, Lowe's still had real TSP as well as the substitute.

As far as how long the TSP mixture it works before you have to dump it, I have yet to hear anyone say it quit working. Everyone dumps it and mixes up fresh when it gets so nasty you can't stand working with it any more.

Yesterday I had a tank running with an anode hanging from a piece of copper wire. Just a little of the wire was in the electrolyte. It put an amazing amount of some green junk into the tank. I'll definitely be more careful to keep the copper out in the future.

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TSP

Postby HDMan » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:23 pm

Actually, the REAL TSP dissapeared several years ago with the removal of phosphates from cleaners and soaps. TSP use to stand for Tri-Sodium Phosphate, but the composition of TSP was changed over 10 years ago to remove the "phosphate". Just an FYI....

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Postby Jim Becker » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:36 am

Phosphates have long since been removed from most common laundry detergents. However, TSP has continued to be available, usually found in paint stores or hardware store paint departments. It has only recently become harder to find. The box I bought (maybe a year ago by now) is labeled TSP and it still is TSP. The box has a statement on it something like "Contains 7.3% elemental phosphorus in the form of phosphates."

The non-phosphate cleaners are labeled "TSP substitute".

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Postby Rudi » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:33 am

Jim:

Precicesly :!: :D

I use TSP. We are not all that concerned with phosphate problems here, our population density is relatively low in comparison with many of the states. Our whole province has about 750,000 residents... I know most medium sized US cities have that many residents.

Anyways - elemental phosphorus is a naturally occuring material and phosphates are also naturally occuring. Where the problem lies is in the amount of phosphates that are deposited in the water system as the human density levels increase. The areas where phosphate contamination was of great concern were the Great Lakes and the Hudson River systems. These are areas of extreme human density and much of the sewage systems drained directly into these bodies of water prior to the creation of modern Sanitary Waste Treatment Plants... course there still are not enough of those yet either :roll: :wink: :D

As for how long before you have to clean it out??? Again as Jim so succinctly put it..

As far as how long the TSP mixture it works before you have to dump it, I have yet to hear anyone say it quit working. Everyone dumps it and mixes up fresh when it gets so nasty you can't stand working with it any more.


In reality, the whole tank does not have to be drained. You can remove enough of the gunk at the bottom of the tank to effectively clean the tank by draining off about 10 gallons of fluid. Then, simply add water to it. After one or two of these partial drain operations, one might consider topping up the TSP again. Or, one might consider topping up the TSP after each 10 gallon drain by using 20% of what you used in the first fillup. In my case that would be 20% of a kilo or 200 grams of TSP

If unlike me, you live in an area where freezing is not an issue, or you have your tank in a WELL VENTILATED and heated area, then draining the tank is not an issue.

I am hoping myself that I will not have to drain my tank this winter if I can get the extension to my shop built. If so, then my tanks will be covered and will benefit from a little warmth.

Also, by wrapping a couple of turns around the bottom 1/4 of the tank with heater cable and inserting a timer and thermostat, you can effectively remove the freezing problem as well.

Again, let me state too, that when draining the tank, I just drain it out onto my lawn. Surprisingly, mother earth can provide much of the cleansing action required. First, the solution is a very nice fertilizer and promotes active vegetative growth - read - it is good for your lawn :wink: :D . Second, the soil will naturally filter out much of the particulate matter - again, most of it will be naturally occuring. What little that is actually of in icky consistency, will be just that, very little and presents a very minute risk of contamination to the environment. If one wished to go that extra step, a filter could be placed on the drain to catch the particulates and then they can be disposed of at your local haz-mat facility.
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