New to Cub: Ground is wrong

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Mcazac34
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Zip Code: 17315
Tractors Owned: 1950 Farmall Cub
Location: Dover, Pennsylvania

New to Cub: Ground is wrong

Postby Mcazac34 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:26 pm

Hi all,
I am new to Cubs. I just picked up my first cub. Model Number 117XXX. I am taking that it is a 1950's model. I have been using this site and just decided to become a member. I want to give my cub a good look over and tune up. The first thing that i noticed is that it wont take a charge. Looking at wiring schematics I can see a issue already. The person before me hard reversed the battery and as a result is negative grounded. If this is my problem what are the steps that i need to take in order to make sure if i flip flop the battery around and change the grounds, that nothing will get hurt or damaged. I am willing to bet when they did a battery change they never took notice to the terminal that was originally grounded. But i want to be safe. Any suggestions would be a major help. :lost:

Thanks,
Zach

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Glen
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Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
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Location: Wa.

Re: New to Cub

Postby Glen » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:45 pm

Hi,
Welcome to the website. Reading the owner's manual is a good place to start. It has much info about operation, lubrication, and maintenance.
Check or change all the fluids is good to do also. The owner's manual tells how.
Here is a 1950 owner's manual below. It has a table of contents on page 1, which makes it easier to use on the internet, but reading it all is good for someone that has never owned a Cub.
The 117000 is the serial number of the tractor, if you found it on the plate by the steering gear.
Look on page 33 of the owner's manual and see if your Cub still has the original electrical system under the hood. Generator, cutout, or relay IH called it, and the 4 position switch on the dash. If it does, I would say change the battery to positive ground, polarize the system at the relay, and see if it charges.
Do what Eugene says below first, before hooking up the battery with positive ground.
I don't see in the manual that it says how to polarize it, I know how on the later Cubs, maybe someone with the relay system will tell how.
Click on the pics makes them bigger. :)

http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20 ... index.html
Last edited by Glen on Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Eugene
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Re: New to Cub: Ground is wrong

Postby Eugene » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:07 pm

Engine off. Digital multi-meter set on 20 volts DC. Red multi-meter lead on positive battery terminal, black lead on negative terminal. If you get a positive voltage reading, battery is correctly charged. Negative reading battery has been reverse charged.

If battery has been reverse charged. Jumper a low wattage bulb between the battery terminals and let the battery completely discharge. May take a day or two. Then using one of the older style battery chargers, correctly charge up the battery.

Battery incorrectly installed may have or may not have damaged the regulator or cutout. Wouldn't hurt any thing else.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Matt Kirsch
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Re: New to Cub: Ground is wrong

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:53 am

The big secret is that these charging systems work fine either way! They don't have any polarity-sensitive solid-state components in them, so you could connect up the ground any way you please, polarize the generator, swap the wires on the ammeter, and go on your merry way.

In all likelihood, none of that was done.

In all likelhood, the charging system wasn't working when the battery was changed anyway, so nothing has been damaged, at least not any worse than it was.

My recommendations:
1. Leave the wiring alone. This will make it slightly easier to troubleshoot because you're not changing things willy-nilly.
2. Put the battery back to negative ground. This will make it slightly easier to troubleshoot because everyone will be talking about the same thing.
3. Polarize the generator.
4. See if it works. Probably not, but it's a quick and easy thing to try.
5. Start troubleshooting the rest of the charging system. Look for "John T's Generator Troubleshooting." I've posted it here in this forum, and it can be found on google.

Criswell
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Re: New to Cub: Ground is wrong

Postby Criswell » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:55 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:They don't have any polarity-sensitive solid-state components in them, so you could connect up the ground any way you please....


There is at least one "polarity-sensitive" part in the system, the regulator. They were made in both negative and positive ground versions, and for the longevity of the regulator, polarity matters.

Image
Where you are, right now, is of absolutly no use unless you are able to get away from it, FAST!

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Dualing Cubs
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Re: New to Cub: Ground is wrong

Postby Dualing Cubs » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:10 pm

Criswell wrote:
Matt Kirsch wrote:They don't have any polarity-sensitive solid-state components in them, so you could connect up the ground any way you please....


There is at least one "polarity-sensitive" part in the system, the regulator. They were made in both negative and positive ground versions, and for the longevity of the regulator, polarity matters.

Image


Thanks for posting this. I just had two Delco-Remy 1101355 6v generators rebuilt for two positive ground system cubs. They put new regulators on them as well.
Josh ..

Eugene
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Re: New to Cub: Ground is wrong

Postby Eugene » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:21 pm

As Matt stated, we do not know what was done when the battery was installed with a negative ground. We do not know if the electrical system is controlled by a cut out or a voltage regulator. We do no know if there was a problem prior to the battery being installed.

The current 6 volt regulators for Delco-Remy generators are universal, same regulator can be used for positive or a negative ground.
I have an excuse. CRS.


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