PTO to PTO for starting

Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.

Moderator: Team Cub

Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Jim Becker
Team Cub
Team Cub
Posts: 13459
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
Zip Code: 55319
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MN

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:39 pm

Other than a bit of confusion over the rotation direction, it looks to me like nearly everyone gave you the same answer. The very first reply pointed out the PTO speed differences between the two tractors. Matt simply filled in a lot more detail than the others, details that you should have been able to fill in for yourself if you had boned up on how your PTOs work.

User avatar
pickerandsinger
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 1478
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
Zip Code: 13143
Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
1950 Ferguson TO20 w/ loader (John Henry)
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:44 am

I had a D4 once that the pony motor was a bear to start….(Rope pull)….I took an old Ford Starter with an external bendix and affixed a pulley to it and rigged a frame so that once I had a belt on both I could move a lever and tighten it….I had a piece of corrugated grill work to serve as a buffer to stop a broken belt or the like from flying at random …It worked great…And once the pony started it was just a simple matter of releasing the tension on the lever…I hope I explained that right but something like that might be an option…..It naturally ran off a 12 volt battery…. :D :D Dave…It was permanently attached to the dozer...
In Memory of 58,286

Clip
Cub Star!
Cub Star!
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:18 am
Zip Code: 28479
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Clip » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:08 am

You'd need a slip clutch or something similar to uncouple the two after both are running. A belt would work great for this.

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4565
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:30 am

brewzalot wrote:
Matt Kirsch wrote:Simple, disengage the PTO on both tractors. It will stop spinning. You can slip the PTO out of gear if there's no load on it.


Not that familiar with the crawler...but "technically" wouldn't you need to disengage both tractors pto's together( at the same time, with 2 people versus 1) or else the first one you tried to disengage would still be under load from the second ?

just saying...Tim


Nope, after you disengage the first, it will "free wheel" until you disengage the second.

Of course this only works with transmission-driven PTOs. Live PTOs generally have a brake on them, and you'd burn up the brake very quickly unless you had two people to coordinate.

I've seen this done on a youtube video a couple of times, but that was a couple years ago in one of my generic searches for "Farmall."

In that case it was two larger tractors, H's or M's as I recall. I think he used a transmission to deal with reversing the rotation of the PTO shaft, since both tractors' PTOs spun in the same direction in that case.

danovercash
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 8:48 pm
Zip Code: 28081
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Kannapolis

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby danovercash » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:23 pm

There has got to be a better way. The T20 could easily start the Cub. Not be other way around. Cub cranking crawler is the equivalent of starting a loaded tractor-trailer in road gear, not going to happen. If you want a portable starter why not put a bypass block on the Cub and plumb a hydraulic motor to it with a crank attached to the business end? Better put long handles on it to keep from rotating 360 degrees.
"I'd rather be a mechanic in the shop"- Henry Ford

252646 & 221525. 195897 (Gone, but not forgotten)

brewzalot
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:10 pm
Zip Code: 53105
Tractors Owned: '57 cub Loboy
'61 cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wisconsin, Burlington

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:57 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Nope, after you disengage the first, it will "free wheel" until you disengage the second.


Matt, but how do you disengage the first? Pushing in the clutch will not take the load off the pto? Yes you can "pop" it out of gear but that's not quite right...it may be splitting hairs but do you see what I mean?

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4565
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:08 am

brewzalot wrote:
Matt Kirsch wrote:Nope, after you disengage the first, it will "free wheel" until you disengage the second.


Matt, but how do you disengage the first? Pushing in the clutch will not take the load off the pto? Yes you can "pop" it out of gear but that's not quite right...it may be splitting hairs but do you see what I mean?


Pushing the clutch will take the load off so you can slip it out of gear. In this case the load is the engine. With the clutch pushed in the transmission is free-wheeling.

Obviously, you can't engage the PTO with it spinning unless you're really-really good at double-clutching.

brewzalot
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:10 pm
Zip Code: 53105
Tractors Owned: '57 cub Loboy
'61 cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wisconsin, Burlington

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:52 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Pushing the clutch will take the load off so you can slip it out of gear. In this case the load is the engine. With the clutch pushed in the transmission is free-wheeling.


You are correct that you will take the load of the first tractors engine off...but there is still some load from the second tractor at the pto slide gear(just coming from the opposite direction). Pushing in the clutch on the first tractor will not stop the drive shaft like normal. They will have to be uncoupled while turning vs. stopped.(Which can be done)

Let me ask this- do you ever disengage your pto , with an implement running, without pushing in the clutch? That is what this would simulate I believe. I don't, but maybe that is an ok practice.

CharlieK
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:25 pm
Location: bullitt county, kentucky

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby CharlieK » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:57 pm

I don't want any part of that---don't even wanta hold yer beer
get er done; life is good

Scrivet
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 2595
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
Zip Code: 63664
Location: MO, Potosi

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Scrivet » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:55 pm

I wonder what a backfire on the T20 would do to the Cub PTO shifter collar?

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4565
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:15 am

brewzalot wrote:
Matt Kirsch wrote:Pushing the clutch will take the load off so you can slip it out of gear. In this case the load is the engine. With the clutch pushed in the transmission is free-wheeling.


You are correct that you will take the load of the first tractors engine off...but there is still some load from the second tractor at the pto slide gear(just coming from the opposite direction). Pushing in the clutch on the first tractor will not stop the drive shaft like normal. They will have to be uncoupled while turning vs. stopped.(Which can be done)

Let me ask this- do you ever disengage your pto , with an implement running, without pushing in the clutch? That is what this would simulate I believe. I don't, but maybe that is an ok practice.


The only load on the slide gear will be the drag from the Cub's transmission. Not even enough to worry about. It will slide out of gear with very little effort.

When I used to mow with my Cub, I would frequently slip the PTO out of gear at the end of a mowing session. Raise the deck, idle down, and let the engine and mower deck speeds stabilize for a second... Like butter.

brewzalot
Cub Star!!
Cub Star!!
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:10 pm
Zip Code: 53105
Tractors Owned: '57 cub Loboy
'61 cub
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wisconsin, Burlington

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby brewzalot » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:47 am

Matt Kirsch wrote:When I used to mow with my Cub, I would frequently slip the PTO out of gear at the end of a mowing session. Raise the deck, idle down, and let the engine and mower deck speeds stabilize for a second... Like butter.


Fair enough- I really like butter!

Motorhead- I too am not in any way condoning what you are proposing to do, that's up to you. But if you do, please take a video.

Tim

Matt Kirsch
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 4565
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Zip Code: 14559
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Matt Kirsch » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:03 am

The discussion is all academic at this point because the Cub simply can't produce enough torque to turn the engine over.

If you've ever run a 59" mower deck you'll know what I mean. A T20 engine turns over way harder than a 59" mower deck.

I just wish I could find that video. It was a couple years ago and I was just browsing "Farmall" videos on youtube. I've tried searching for PTO start videos and come up with nothing.

User avatar
Urbish
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1345
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1948 Farmall Cub
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Urbish » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:17 am

This isn't the one Matt is referring to, but interesting nonetheless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae_4it5gJJg

User avatar
Urbish
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1345
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
Zip Code: 48158
Tractors Owned: ~
1948 Farmall Cub
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: PTO to PTO for starting

Postby Urbish » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:18 am

Matt Kirsch wrote:
I just wish I could find that video. It was a couple years ago and I was just browsing "Farmall" videos on youtube. I've tried searching for PTO start videos and come up with nothing.


Is this it, Matt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWi2Xu2wpfg


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Farmall Cub”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bbisel55, Bob Triplett, nyquil junkie and 3 guests