rear split on 1952 cub

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greenmountain
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Zip Code: 35803

rear split on 1952 cub

Postby greenmountain » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:33 am

Hey fellers,
I have been putting off this project due to "fear of the unknown". The PTO like some others on here jumps out of gear. All the splines and the shift lever are A-OK. The gap between the pto shaft and the spline and clutch shaft is excessive. So she needs to come apart. I have looked at my manual and am fine with the actual split but removing the main shaft has my forehead with a few extra wrinkles. The books says "shift the transmission in two gear speeds to lock it". What is going on there? Is it just the cap screws and bearing retainer that holds the shaft into the transmission case? Do I have to deal with the gear that is riding on the end of the clutch shaft? Does it come out with the shaft or will I have to watch it fall down into the transmission case and fish it out? I have fixed the wiring, charging system, touch control and final drives and just want to see the rest of my cub doing right. The voice of discouragement tells me to drive out in the woods and do this under the big oak tree so when the transmission falls out and I wind up parting her out on ebay my wife won't ask about why the "cub-all" (her term) is all in pieces.
Oh also is there a gasket or seal between the two halves? I don't see one on the part list.

thanks,
Stanley

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Urbish
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Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Urbish » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:23 pm

If you split where the transmission meets the torque tube, the clutch shaft slides rearward out of the flywheel and stays with the transmission. With the transmission and clutch shaft on the workbench (or the whole rear of the tractor supported securely since you aren't doing a full teardown), you can then pull the bolts that hold the bearing retainer and shaft to the transmission and slide the whole works forward out of the case. Make sure you setup for the split in a location where you can roll the rear half of the tractor about 4' rearward so that the clutch shaft will be clear of the torque tube. There is no gasket between the transmission and torque tube as that is not (supposed to be) a fluid reservoir, although mine had many years of grease/oil and a vast mouse nest hanging out in there. When you pull the clutch shaft, the two sliding gears (1st/Reverse and 2nd/3rd) will fall off the shaft. If you have taken the time to remove the shift forks beforehand, this will not be an issue and you can grab them as they slide free.

Do you have splitting stands? I built these for my transmission rebuild and they worked great: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=89914

Eugene
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Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Eugene » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:28 pm

There is a retainer on the front of the transmission. Frequently the retainer is installed backwards. Then all you need to do is reverse the retainer to move the transmission's main shaft rearward.
I have an excuse. CRS.

greenmountain
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Zip Code: 35803

Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby greenmountain » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:44 pm

Eugene,
Does the bearing retainer slide forward off the clutch shaft so I can reverse it without pulling the main shaft out of the transmission? If so I am embolden to tackle this project! I am wondering if I had one of the digital inspection cameras from the Chinese import stores could I sneak a peak up through the clutch hole and tell if it is wrong before the split?

Eugene
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Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Eugene » Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:54 pm

greenmountain wrote:Does the bearing retainer slide forward off the clutch shaft so I can reverse it without pulling the main shaft out of the transmission?
Yes.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Urbish
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1948 Farmall Cub
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Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Woods 59CF-1 Mower
Wood L306 Mower
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Urbish » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:20 pm

Keep in mind that once you loosen the bolts that hold the bearing retainer to the transmission, there is nothing to keep the shaft from coming out of the trans along with it. In my case I had to pound the retainer and bearing off the shaft (was replacing it anyway). I would not have been able to remove it without removing the shaft first. It's pretty easy to remove the shifter forks and catch the two sliding gears as they fall off. But I understand if you are uncomfortable with tackling it.

greenmountain
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:35 am
Zip Code: 35803

Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby greenmountain » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:06 pm

dumb question I reckon but is it the bearing or the retainer that is often on wrong. looking at the pictures it looks more like the bearing would cause my front ward movement. i'm thinking (yeah that gets me in more trouble) I will wind up pulling the shaft out. I should have on hand not just the gasket but the bearing. about those forks, if I stare at it for a while it will makes sense to me but is that where the little spring loaded balls come out? Does it matter what gear it is in when the forks are removed?
thanks a bunch

Stanley

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Urbish
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Posts: 1457
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:45 pm
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1948 Farmall Cub
1947 Farmall H
1946 Farmall B
1953 Willys CJ3B

Cub-193 Moldboard Plow
Cub-54A Leveling and Grader Blade
Woods 59CF-1 Mower
Wood L306 Mower
Unknown 5' Single Gang Disc Harrow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Manchester, MI

Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Urbish » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:31 am

Stanley, I'm not sure about the first part of your question. I've only been working on one cub for a few years. But regarding the forks, you can check out this write up that Rudi did some time ago about how to remove the shift forks. It's very easy: http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 41&t=42065 Oh, and it doesn't matter what gear it is in when you take the trans cover off, but neutral is probably best.

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Bill V in Md
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Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Bill V in Md » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:50 am

greenmountain wrote:dumb question I reckon but is it the bearing or the retainer that is often on wrong. looking at the pictures it looks more like the bearing would cause my front ward movement. i'm thinking (yeah that gets me in more trouble) I will wind up pulling the shaft out.

Stanley

Stanley,
I believe it is the retainer that is often installed wrong, but sometimes it could be the bearing. If the bearing is one that is sealed on one side, then the open side should be installed so that it faces the retainer (and not the gears). That position allows the bearing to be lubricated by a little reservoir above. The below photo shows the correct alignment of bearing and retainer on the input shaft prior to installation.
photo 2a.JPG
Bill VanHooser
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Dale Finch
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Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Dale Finch » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:46 am

greenmountain wrote:is it the bearing or the retainer that is often on wrong

It is the retainer that can be installed backwards, and you can CAREFULLY slide it off the forward end of the drive shaft to turn it around IF it is backwards. I suggest before you move that retainer (with the seal) you clean the shaft well, lightly sand, and perhaps use a thin sheet of plastic (Zip Loc bag?) when sliding the retainer/seal off, unless you plan to go ahead and replace the seal (available from NAPA) while you are there...recommended.

Also, as Bill mentioned, that bearing is lubricated by gear oil dripping down through a hole above it in the transmission housing. That hole often gets plugged up (as does another one at the rear of the housing). While you have it open, clean out those holes and the channel leading to it to ensure good lubrication.

greenmountain
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:35 am
Zip Code: 35803

Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby greenmountain » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:18 pm

You guys are great. :worthy: The one thing they cannot export is good old helping your neighbor.

I plan to do it right. Pull out the main shaft replace the bearing and seal , clean out the case etc. My plumber buddy had it right when he said "the worse part in dreading it". All the cub work I dreaded in the past turned out to be fun so this will also.

One question as I get my parts ordered TMtractor has the retainer and seal for $26.xx but not the seal alone. Does anyone have a part number so I can get just that from NAPA?

thanks again
Stanley

Eugene
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Re: rear split on 1952 cub

Postby Eugene » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:59 pm

http://www.atis.net/CubFAQ/cub_faq.html#q7

The seal you are after is down a bit on the page.

Might want to bookmark the page for future use.
I have an excuse. CRS.


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