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I have a couple issues, help appreciated

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fletchman919
10+ Years
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Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:44 pm
Zip Code: 45693
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1966 Colt 2712
1966 Sears Suburban 10
1969 Sears Super 12
1972 Sears SS15
1963 Cub
1969 Cub Lo Boy

I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby fletchman919 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:31 pm

I acquired a Cub in relatively rough condition last week. I plan on using it to mow a couple acres with a 5' Woods mower. The serial number comes back as a 1963 model year, however my shift lever is a bent one like the later models have. The 1963 Owner's Manual shows a straight shift lever. Does this mean something was replaced or is that normal? Just curious.

I drove 2 hours after working all day to get the tractor, so I didn't look it over all that well. It started right up and mowed as expected. All the gears, lights and brakes worked and it had oil in the engine so I took it home.

I went to start it after the cold snap and it wouldn't turn over. The lights were nice and bright, but it wouldn't crank. I checked the radiator and I didn't see any coolant. Water droplets were frozen to the cap. It was too late to do anything about it, so the next morning, I added 50/50 antifreeze. I jumped the tractor with a truck and it fired right up. I let it run for about 20 minutes and took another look in the radiator. The coolant wasn't circulating and it appeared to be oily. The dipstick for the engine oil had good clean oil with no indication of coolant in it. Shouldn't the coolant be circulating? Should I be concerned with the oily looking coolant? What's the best way to flush out any rust/clogs in the system?

My charging gauge was leaning towards the charging side, so I'm assuming the system is charging and the battery is no good. The battery showed 11.56 volts when I brought it in the garage. Any help is appreciated.

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SundaySailor
10+ Years
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:45 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1950 Cub
2000 Simplicity Landlord DLX
1988 JD 322 Garden Tractor with hydraulic scoop, 54" scrape blade and 48" mower deck, Haban 3 pt hitch sickle bar mower

2014 LS XR3032H w/ FEL and BH
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby SundaySailor » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:56 pm

Fletchman:

It appears your tractor may have seen some changes. The shifter may have come with your tractor, but also with the deluxe seat too. Hard to say. It's easy enough to change the long shifter that normally goes with the pan style seat to the shorter, bent shifter like you describe.

12V? Sounds like you may have a partial change over from a 6 V positive ground tractor to a 12 V negative ground tractor. Check to see if you have a generator with a voltage regular or a cut-out. If you have an alternator, it could very well be either 6V or 12 V. You didn't give us that information.

It's possible that you may have a bad cell in your battery too. Or, a bad ground could cause your problem.

Oil in the antifreeze in the radiator? Take the lower radiator hose off and flush the system if you can't get the plug in the bottom of the bolster out.

There isn't a water pump on the Farmall Cub. It uses a thermo siphon system to cause the water to circulate. It's a different animal than most of us are accustomed to.

Overall, change your liquids, and make a list of things you can see (belts, leaks, etc) that need to be done. Get your tools, work area and parts ready.

Oh yeah. Go ahead and get ready to take the hood off. Let us know if you need help.

Welcome to the forum.

SS
Though trillions and trillions of eyes have been watching the skies for as long as human memory exists, no gods nor angels have been seen or documented outside of religion. The number of spaceships being sighted however has become much more prevalent.

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fletchman919
10+ Years
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Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:44 pm
Zip Code: 45693
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1966 Colt 2712
1966 Sears Suburban 10
1969 Sears Super 12
1972 Sears SS15
1963 Cub
1969 Cub Lo Boy

Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby fletchman919 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:55 pm

Thank you for the quick reply. I really appreciate it.

The prior owner told me that it was converted to a 12 volt system. I have not confirmed that yet, except that the battery showed 11.56 volts when I brought it home and tested it. I left the tractor at our camp which is an hour away or I would go and look for the generator with a voltage regulator you speak of. When I last looked at the tractor, I thought it looked like a generator and not an alternator. Could it be that it's a six volt system trying to charge a 12 volt battery?

The negative was hooked up as a ground, when I bought it. It was working like that, so do you reckon someone change it to that way?

Good to know about the coolant system lacking a water pump. I will drain the coolant and try to flush it out. The bolt in the bottom of the radiator looks new, so hopefully it will easily come out. I wonder if the new bolt is an indication on the PO having coolant issues...

SundaySailor
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Posts: 1041
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:45 pm
Zip Code: 00000
Tractors Owned: 1950 Cub
2000 Simplicity Landlord DLX
1988 JD 322 Garden Tractor with hydraulic scoop, 54" scrape blade and 48" mower deck, Haban 3 pt hitch sickle bar mower

2014 LS XR3032H w/ FEL and BH
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby SundaySailor » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:18 pm

"The negative was hooked up as a ground, when I bought it. It was working like that, so do you reckon someone change it to that way?

Good to know about the coolant system lacking a water pump. I will drain the coolant and try to flush it out. The bolt in the bottom of the radiator looks new, so hopefully it will easily come out. I wonder if the new bolt is an indication on the PO having coolant issues..."

Anything is possible. These tractors are old, and many people didn't know what a positive ground was. I know I didn't for years and I used to work in an auto mechanic's garage when I was in my teens.

However, when I was in my teens, the 12v negative charging systems were already the norm, and it was rare we saw 6 V positive ground charging systems on cars and trucks.

The Cub's radiator can get clogged up and cause heating problems. Remember, these tractors have been around for a long, long time. Mine is older than I am, but not by much. :oops:

I know I've had my cub pretty much rebuilt, and I still do not want to get rid of it. In fact, I was grading the gravel in the garage parking lot this past weekend. Seat time!
Though trillions and trillions of eyes have been watching the skies for as long as human memory exists, no gods nor angels have been seen or documented outside of religion. The number of spaceships being sighted however has become much more prevalent.

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:41 pm

The oil in the radiator may have come fror someone thinking they were lubricating the water pump. Water and antifreeze should be mixed before putting in engine, since without a water pump it takes quite a while for it to completely mix from running.
If you are not part of the solution,
you are part of the problem!!!

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Bus Driver
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Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby Bus Driver » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:41 pm

With thermosiphon cooling, the coolant will not/cannot circulate except when the coolant level is sufficient to create a continuous "loop". Coolant must be visible when one looks into the radiator filler neck. It is a sort of balancing act to get enough coolant in the system to permit circulation without getting overflow from expansion when the engine is fully warmed.
Luck favors those who are prepared

staninlowerAL
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Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby staninlowerAL » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:19 pm

"Overall, change your liquids, and make a list of things you can see (belts, leaks, etc) that need to be done. Get your tools, work area and parts ready.

Oh yeah. Go ahead and get ready to take the hood off. Let us know if you need help.Welcome to the forum."

:Dito: on the information from SundaySailor. Sounds like you should consider removing the hood/fuel tank and determine what the electrical set-up is like. There could be multiple suprises there, like generator/regulator vs. alternator (if so, how is it wired), 6v or 12v coil and since you said it was neg ground, the neg side of the coil should be to the distributor. Is there a resistor in the circuit? Condition of points, plugs, etc should be checked. The wiring harness might need some repair/upgrade. If you decide to flush the cooling system you will be able to get a better flush of the lower end of the engine if you remove the lower outlet connection that connects the lower radiator hose to the radiator housing (use the search function to see how the cooling system is designed to operate and see a tool made for this purpose). Good Luck and Welcome to the forum, Stan
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Bigdog
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Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby Bigdog » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:45 pm

Your static battery voltage reading indicates a weak battery but before you replace it check all the connections to and from the battery. Especially the ground cable. All connections need to be clean and tight. If your battery cable(s) have those clamp-on replacement ends remove and clean that area as well. Most problems with non-starting are due to negligence in battery / charging system maintenance.
Check your battery voltage with the tractor running and indicating a charge on the ammeter. It will tell you if the system is really charging. Voltage when running and charging will be higher than static battery voltage. You should have 12.6 volts static reading and around 13 - 14 volts running.
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

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tmays
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Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby tmays » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:53 pm

I wouldn't pull the hood just yet. Things you need to do right now can be done with hood on. John and Bigdog have you started in the right direction.
Thomas

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fletchman919
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:44 pm
Zip Code: 45693
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1966 Colt 2712
1966 Sears Suburban 10
1969 Sears Super 12
1972 Sears SS15
1963 Cub
1969 Cub Lo Boy

Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby fletchman919 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:15 pm

Thank you all for the replies! I really appreciate all of them.

I talked to my brother a while ago and he remembers a generator and a voltage regulator.

Looks like I'm going to have to load it up and bring it back home for a thorough inspection. Going to be rough with the cold spell we're having in Ohio. Supposed to drop to near zero degrees tonight.

Thank you guys! A wealth of information here. I enjoyed reading many of the threads today. Lots of fun reading for sure.

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Glen
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Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby Glen » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:40 pm

Hi,
A 1963 Cub was originally 6 volts. You can identify if the starter or generator has been changed if they still have the original number plates on them. My Cub is older than 1963, I'm not sure if the plates on a 1963 show the voltage or not. If not, you can Google the model number on the plate, it should tell the voltage.
The starter with the switch on top of it, and the rod to pull to make it work is a 6 volt starter. :)

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fletchman919
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:44 pm
Zip Code: 45693
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1966 Colt 2712
1966 Sears Suburban 10
1969 Sears Super 12
1972 Sears SS15
1963 Cub
1969 Cub Lo Boy

Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby fletchman919 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:16 pm

Glen wrote:Hi,
A 1963 Cub was originally 6 volts. You can identify if the starter or generator has been changed if they still have the original number plates on them. My Cub is older than 1963, I'm not sure if the plates on a 1963 show the voltage or not. If not, you can Google the model number on the plate, it should tell the voltage.
The starter with the switch on top of it, and the rod to pull to make it work is a 6 volt starter. :)


Hi Glen,

I'll look for the number plates when I get the tractor this weekend. I do know the starter has the switch on top. Thanks for the help.

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tmays
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Tractors Owned: 1969 Farmall Cub
1952 Cub
1942 Farmall H
Location: Raymond, MS

Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby tmays » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:26 pm

You'll be fine using the 6V starter on the 12V system. Just don't crank on it for extended periods. I've done it for 3 years on one of mine with no issues
Thomas

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Bigdog
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Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby Bigdog » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:55 pm

From your zip code I see you are located between Barnyard and me. If you need help with something we could probably muster a mini cubfest to work on it.
Bigdog
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.

My wife says I don't listen to her. - - - - - - - - Or something like that!

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User avatar
fletchman919
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:44 pm
Zip Code: 45693
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
1966 Colt 2712
1966 Sears Suburban 10
1969 Sears Super 12
1972 Sears SS15
1963 Cub
1969 Cub Lo Boy

Re: I have a couple issues, help appreciated

Postby fletchman919 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:04 pm

Bigdog wrote:From your zip code I see you are located between Barnyard and me. If you need help with something we could probably muster a mini cubfest to work on it.

Well thank you guys! You all are a good bunch of people. This is a neat website. I really enjoy reading here. I've been reading much of the day.


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