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Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

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Hengy
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Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Hengy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:34 am

Glad that it is Fall and my grass is not growing fast! Last week, Merlin, my 1949 Cub was mowing along nicely when all of a sudden, in the middle of a cut, he stopped running like I pushed the kill switch. Checked the fuel, and it was almost empty. Since my lot is anything by flat, I assumed that I had drained the carb and it was out of fuel. Added fuel and went to restart...nothing...not even a pop. The tractor has a mag, and I haven't been using a battery for two years, so I have been hand cranking. No problem, I can drift down the yard in 3rd and try starting it that way. Nothing...not a pop. I get to the bottom of the yard, and leave the tractor sit for a bit. Hooked the tractor up behind my wife's Silverado. Pulled back up into the field next to the house, and still nothing. Saw fuel vapor coming out of the stack, so it is getting fuel. Must be the mag.

Hooked up the spark tester to the #1 plug wire. Hand cranked through 8 revolutions. No spark to the plug wire. HMMM... Removed the kill switch wire and tried it again. Still no spark. HMMM... Bought a distributor kit and changed the points and condenser (burnished the points to make sure no varnish on them)...Reinstalled mag. Still no spark. I'm perplexed. This mag is no more than 4 years off of a complete rebuild and the coil looks brand new inside. Just seems odd that it would fail like turning off the switch!

Now what to do? I was planning on a 12V Conversion anyhow, but was not planning on a distributor conversion! I guess that is now on the schedule. The only thing left would be the coil in the mag... just seems odd that it would have failed like that so quickly. I have made sure that the mag is not grounded with the kill switch wire, but don't know how to confirm that it isn't internally shorted...

Just flummoxed...

Mike
Mike (Happy as a Lark in Allison Park, PA)
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Eugene
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Eugene » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:44 am

Since you are converting to 12 volts.
Eugene wrote:The old farmer fix. Remove mag's internal coil and install an external coil. You will need a coil with resister, switch, and some electrical wire, and a plug wire.
I have an excuse. CRS.

ScottyD'sdad
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:54 am

I'd blame the coil. Since it's a "new" one, the quality probably isn't what it was, back in '49.
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Hengy
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "Merlin"
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Hengy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:48 am

What is everyone's experience with the Brillman Coils? Are they decent or am I likely to have problems with them right out of the box?
Mike (Happy as a Lark in Allison Park, PA)
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Tractorboy3
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Tractorboy3 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:31 pm

Not intending to Hi-jack...I had the same thing happen yesterday with the Super C, Mag ignition with original?? coil. After 15 minutes just quit. Pulled the mag apart to look for obvious fault..none found…put it back together..hot spark now…I've heard that when an old failing coil heats up..it can short internally and fail..then after cooling off..back to OK..Is there any way to check the coil..Ohm meter shows less than 1 ohm…Looking at the Brillman coils myself this morning….Interested in what you come up with….
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ScottyD'sdad
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:10 pm

Hengy wrote:What is everyone's experience with the Brillman Coils? Are they decent or am I likely to have problems with them right out of the box?

Mike, I don't know about Brillmans, Should be good. Try Mark's magnetos , Colchester, Ct 860 537 0376 Mark carries quality stuff.
Ed
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Hengy
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Location: PA, Allison Park (Am Hengelsberg)
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Hengy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:04 pm

Thanks, Ed...
Mike (Happy as a Lark in Allison Park, PA)
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Puffie40
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Puffie40 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:18 pm

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The Magneto service manual should have exact value for a coil test, but if a secondary coil test is higher than 10-20 kilo ohms, then your coil has a problem.

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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Rudi » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:36 pm

Mike:

You can also check with Jon aka Magman - he sent me a coil - I put it in one of me mags - still works like a charm :-) I think it is an AI aftermarket but it does what it is supposed to do. Wasn't all that expensive and keeps that particular Cub as it was...If I remember correctly it is the mag on Granny.
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Larry Miller » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:24 pm

I had same type of problem - turned out to be coil wire to distributor - easy fix after checking all the stuff you did.

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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Rick Spivey » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:18 pm

Mike,

Could be a short, typically through the kill switch stud. Sometimes that insulator cracks, and the spark will follow the crack to ground. I don't know how long today's coils "should" last, partly because I have heard so many horror stories, and partly because I think the usage and treatment of them can vary so much. Those two things may be related, meaning that some people with short-lived coils may have been partly responsible. For example, never spin a magneto without somewhere for the spark to go, that will burn up a coil in a moment. Another bad habit is over-oiling the magneto, they only need a few drops each year. I'm certainly not saying that is your case, since you were in the middle of running. Just using your post to soapbox a bit. My own experience is that I have 3 magnetos, rebuilt in 2007, 2008, and probably 2009. All three are running strong today, no telling how long they will go.....
Rick Spivey
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CPIII
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby CPIII » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:21 am

Agree with Rick.....I had to replace the insulator on the stud on my mag. Been hand-cranking ever since. What I did to narrow it down was to get some liquid tape and coat the cracked insulator (It was a very fine crack not very visible to the naked eye) really good, That worked until I received my new insulator from TM tractor.
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Hengy
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Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "Merlin"
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Cub Trailer
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Location: PA, Allison Park (Am Hengelsberg)
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Hengy » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:56 am

Just a quick followup on this thread. It was indeed the coil in the Magneto. Replaced the points and condensor and still no fire, then I ordered a new coil from Brillman. They were great to work with and the coil arrived to my house in two days from when I ordered. Removed the old coil and removed the core from the coil. Reinstalled the core to the coil and coil in the mag.

Reinstalled the mag and times per the video that I posted on YouTube and the tractor fired on the second pull of the hand crank and runs like a Swiss watch again.

I'm still relatively new to all things engine, but I am surprised that the coil failed that suddenly.

All is good on Hengelsberg Hill again.
Mike (Happy as a Lark in Allison Park, PA)
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Check out my Restoration Thread (1955 Cub, Lewis)

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Hengy
10+ Years
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Posts: 7150
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:12 pm
Zip Code: 15101
eBay ID: lacrosseorgans
Skype Name: Mike.Hengelsberg
Tractors Owned: 1949 Cub "Merlin"
1955 Cub "Lewis"
Cub Trailer
A-60 Blade
Cub-22 Mower
193 Plow
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: PA, Allison Park (Am Hengelsberg)
Contact:

Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Hengy » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:06 am

And just one more quick note. The magneto has never been off the tractor since I finished painting it several years ago, and I agree with Rick that you should always have a path for the spark to travel or the coil would fail. One thing I did notice was a small amount of oil on the bottom of the old coil. My mag seal leaks despite replacing it twice now. I'm wondering if the oil got in the mag from the seal and that is what caused the premature failure of the coil... Guess I'll never really know, but at least it is fixed and it runs great now!!
Mike (Happy as a Lark in Allison Park, PA)
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Re: Thank heavens it is fall - Stopped and won't start

Postby Poncho » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:48 am

Hi Mike,
My 1950 cub would quit on me while mowing the lawn. It would start a few hours later. Then one day I had to haul it to the garage. Went to an old Farmall Mechanic and I told him the story. He said it was the coil. Replaced it and it has worked since. I know yours quit from the get go. My replacement is a newer style but it has been working for several years. This summer I have been working on a few other things and it wouldn't start at times but that was mostly wires and the last time was the insulating washer on my distributor that I changed. I put the old cork washer/ gasket on and it has been fine. Glad you got it fixed. Nothing sadder than having a fun tractor stumping us, great feeling when you pull starter and it runs. :-)
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