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Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestions?

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AL Farmall Boy
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Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestions?

Postby AL Farmall Boy » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:43 pm

I am working on an offset lo-boy that has really easy steering (effortless like most all late models)......except for about the last 1/4 of steering wheel travel on both the left and right sides. The play in the steering is only about 1 inch of steering wheel travel, so it seems fairly tight. The issue he doesn't like is that it gets stiff at each end of the travel of the steering arm.

I was told the steering box leaks, so I will have to pull it apart to replace the seals and gaskets, but would like to try to save him as much as I can since the bushings are fairly expensive. This tractor belongs to an elderly family friend that is on a budget, and I decided to just fix it for him and only charge him for whatever the parts cost.

You think it could be doing this because it is dry from the box leaking, or because something like the bushings are worn and need replacing? I did notice the tie rods were loose and I tightened those up on the ends and took some slop out. The balls were nice and round on both ends. I also straightened one of the rods and checked the spindles to make sure they were loose. I will order some shims to install in the center arm to see if it will tighten that part on up. It would be nice to figure out what is causing the tightness so I can order the bushings If I have to when I order the other parts.
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Don McCombs
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:49 pm

Have you tried lubricating the steering system?
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AL Farmall Boy
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby AL Farmall Boy » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:37 pm

I have not tried that Don simply because he said that it leaks, so I know it will need new seals/gaskets. I was just wondering if anyone had any expierence with something binding in the box causing this, a worn bushing causing this, or something else. I know the gear oil will help it, but was wondering if it could be more and how I might could find out. When I get it apart, I will check to see how the shaft turns in the bushings. With the steering play being pretty tight (about 1 inch of steering wheel travel), typically it would be safe to say the bushings are ok....right??

Hopefully it is just the lack of oil.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:59 pm

It's probably stiff, from lack of lube. (leakd out) I'd refill it and try it. It will leak out, again if the seal is bad, but will answer the question is everything inside,, ok.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:41 pm

I was talking about the grease zerks, not adding gear oil to the box. You may find that the box is full of grease from someone attempting a work-around for the leaking.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby AL Farmall Boy » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:32 pm

Yes I did grease all of the points on the steering and axle system when I tightened up the tie rod ends. I have too seen/heard about alot of tractors where someone used axle grease in the steering boxes rather than gear oil.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Arthur Luke » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:51 pm

Image
From the Operators Manual on Rudi's server.
This is the way the tie rods should be on a Lo Boy. I think if you cross them over and set the toe in properly it may help.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Super A » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:18 am

AL Farmall Boy wrote:\when I tightened up the tie rod ends.\.


There might be a little bit of wear on the ball portions of the tie rod ends roughly where the tractor is steering straight. If so,now that you have the seats the right tightness straight ahead, when you turn all the way to the left or right the tie rod ends are too tight. Back off the adjustment just a smidge and see if that helps.

While it makes me a heretic, I believe in corn head grease in the steering box. Had a new seal and steering shaft leak on a Super A once. That was all it took for me.

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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Gary Dotson » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:24 am

Art is correct, the tie rods should cross over & under each other. I don't know if that's causing the hard steer or not, but it's a good place to start.

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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:05 am

My first thoughts were the same as Don's, it appears to be starving for grease. I suggest jacking up the front end and see if you still feel the resistance at the end of the steering spin. If not, block one side and let the other down , then switch to see if it is on one side. Another thing to try is disconnect each tie rod and use a 2x4 or 2x6 between the wheel and spindle to move each spindle back and forth by hand to check it and work the fresh grease in. I have seen cubs that had been NOT greased for so long you could only turn the steering part of a round with out serious effort. I had to grease the spindles then use the 2x4 to walk back and forth working the grease into the spindle to free them up. I have never seen a sector that bad, but it is also a possibility. Of course there is also the possibility that it has not been turned all the way a lot, and the gear is not as worn and polished at the ends of the travel as the rest. The gear can be rotated half a round on the shaft also if you want.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:35 am

If it was from lack of lube, then why is the steering "effortless" in the middle?

I really think it is because of the incorrectly-connected tie rods. They're hooked up backwards, and are trying to shove the wheels past where they would normally stop.

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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Ironlegs » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:04 am

My guess would be that the trouble has to do with the ball ends of the tie rods being out of round. Ovalled rod ends would have the minor diameter in contact internally with the steering pointed ahead and with the major diameter in contact at the right and left extremes. I had this problem with a Super A. First, I had the balls built-up with weld and re-surfaced to round which was used for five or so years with so-so performance. I eventually found and purchased used steering rod ends that were in much better shape than my repaired ones...they perform very good. I use my Super A for mowing mostly which is hard on the steering...re-greasing it often helps keep things from wearing excessively.

Really great photos with your post! I like the mower belt guard.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Barnyard » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:31 am

I agree with some of the others. Reverse the tie rod mount before going any further. It may save you a lot of needless trouble shooting.

Your tie rods are incorrectly installed
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Correct installation
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby AL Farmall Boy » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:19 pm

Thank you so much for the replies guys. I knew the tie rods were over/under on the Loboy but didn't even notice they were in the wrong spot still. I will try that first before tearing down......even though it supposedly leaks. The spindles are nice and smooth and will spin on their own if that top arm wasn't in the way.
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Re: Steering Box is Stiff At Each End of Travel - Suggestion

Postby Urbish » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:12 pm

If you do tear down, mark the clocking of the steering input shaft and reinstall it 180 degrees from your mark and do the same with the big gear in the steering box. These old tractors have been driven with the same 3-4 teeth on the gears in mesh for most of their lives (straight ahead). Obviously this won't fix your immediate problem, but it took a lot of slop out of mine.
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