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That darned front pulley

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Dave (69 lo-boy)
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That darned front pulley

Postby Dave (69 lo-boy) » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:43 am

I am tearing down my engine for a rebuild, and trying to remove the front pulley.
I tried to make a puller out of some scrap iron laying around.Image
The angle iron is bending from the pressure, these things are tight.
Can I apply heat to the pulley?
Thanks for any suggestions!
Dave

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:59 am

You need heavier steel, for the backing, and more surface area, bearing on the pulley. That's why we use a "keyhole" cut out. Half inch steel is good. Mine is 3/4 inch, a bit heavy, but it's what I scrounged. Heat might help. Some use heat, to reinstall.
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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Super A » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:04 am

After you make changes to your puller, once you have it tightened down on the pulley REAL tight, try giving the hub of the pully a few firm whacks with a big hammer--but Don't get carried away! Oftentimes a couple well-placed, good sharp blow will break it loose.

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:23 am

You'll want MUCH more coverage on the back of the pulley (engine side) or you risk breaking off part of the belt flange.

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Hengy » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:34 am

Looking at the picture, you could cut a slot in the part that the jack is resting on to fit around the pulley, weld a brace in between the angles that you have around the pulley now and flip the apparatus end-for-end, and I think it would work for you. The steel on the current base might be a little thin, but I think it would work...
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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:42 am

It is good the iron bent. It appears in the picture you have it hooked in the groove of the pulley. that is a guaranteed way to break a pulley. As was mentioned, a minimum of 1/2 inch thick plate behind the pulley with just enough of a key hole slot to slide over the neck, and a minimum of 5 ton jack. Sometimes I pull one up just as tight as my 6 ton will go and just let it set. Occasionally makes a pop like something has broken when it turns loose and moves the first little bit. The bolt it pushes against also needs to be hardened to prevent it bending. If you are taking it to a machine shop to be rebuilt, they will have a press to remove it and press it back on.

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Dave (69 lo-boy) » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:13 am

John, the puller is behind the pulley, although the photo makes it appear otherwise.
I wish I had a plasma cutter, I would have used the base for the pulling end.
I think I can weld another layer of angle on the bottom and reinforce the pulling end to make more contact on the back of the pulley.
Thanks for all of the responses, I will modify and try again.
Dave

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby ricky racer » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:52 am

If all else fails apply a little heat with a propane or Mapp gas torch while your puller is applying pressure. Don't take it much hotter than you can touch though.
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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:57 pm

Why not much hotter than you can touch? IMHO it's not even worth lighting the torch if you only go that far.

When reinstalling the pulley you heat it to 275 in the oven, and that doesn't harm a brand new oil seal, start any fires, etc..

You're not trying to save the old oil seal, so who cares if you get it hot?

When I pulled mine, I had to heat it TWICE with oxy-acetylene, and I *STILL* broke the pulley with a full bearing separator and light-duty puller.

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Ironlegs » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:22 pm

First, a few comments about your fixturing: (1) I'm surprised that your hydraulic jack pumps in a horizontal position...mine doesn't, (2) the angle brackets that surround the pulley are weak in bending where they contact the pulley...flex in these pieces will concentrate pulling force on the outside of the pulley flange and risk breaking or cracking them...the fixturing that contacts the pulley needs to be stout to avoid pulley breakage.

I had the experience of pulling a Super A front pulley that was really bound onto the end of the crank shaft. The local tractor parts and service business leant me their heavy hub puller. I juiced the contact surface with PB Blaster several times and tapped the dickens out of the pulley collar while having maximum puller force on the hub without effect! After heating the pulley collar for about 12-15 minutes with maximum propane torch heat, I could ever so slowly get the hub to move forward off the crank shaft. Your situation may require several cycles of heating, penetrant application and re-heating while applying removal force.

On re-assembly, leave the front engine cover bolts loose until the hub is completely installed to center the cover oil seal on the crank shaft. This will maximize the effectiveness of the oil seal.
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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Dave (69 lo-boy) » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:42 pm

Thanks for the tips! From what I have read bottle jacks will work horizontally if the pump side is down so that oil can enter the pump.
I have a long way to go, the crank needs to be turned, a rod bearing spun but I think turning .020 will clean it up. The bores look good and mic to within a couple of thousandths of new.
I plan on using the domed pistons, maybe I will get another whopping 1 horsepower or so.
I will lap the valves, they look pretty good.
Parts look to be about $450.00 or so, I don't know how much the machine work will be, but I'll bet it is a lot higher than the last time I built an engine.
Any other engine rebuild tips specific to the cub are welcome!
Thanks,
Dave Toney

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:10 pm

Ironlegs wrote:First, a few comments about your fixturing: (1) I'm surprised that your hydraulic jack pumps in a horizontal position...mine doesn't,...........
Most of them will if you turn them so the pump is on the lower side. They also have to have the proper level of oil.
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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby ricky racer » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:47 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:Why not much hotter than you can touch?


My thought was not to damage the seal.Probably not a real issue as you stated. Most bearings (I know it's not a bearing bit....) that are a press fit on a shaft will slip on a shaft if heated to around 180 degrees. Granted 180 degrees is too hot to handlebut with the pressure applied with the puller, it shouldn't take too much heat to get it to come loose.

Anyway, good luck Dave. Keep us posted on your progress.

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Dave (69 lo-boy) » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:49 pm

A few points on my ugly puller.
The angle iron is making contact on the flat part of the pulley all the way back to where the tapering begins, but no further.
I stopped pumping when I saw the angle iron begin to bend, realizing that the pressure was beginning to move to the outer edge, which could break the edge off.
I may have to fill my acetylene tank and cut an opening in the thick channel iron that is currently the base and use that for the pulling end.
Or I may see if the machine shop that turns the crank can remove it.
Thanks for all of the comments, I'll keep updating as things progress.
Dave

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Re: That darned front pulley

Postby Eugene » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:56 pm

My first time removing the pulley, I took the crankshaft, front cover, and pulley to a local tractor dealership. They had the quality, heavy duty, bearing splitters for the task.
I have an excuse. CRS.


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