12 volt

[ThomD]

I have a farmall cub, that had an engine job, and I think it is in generally good condition. However, over the last decade it has become increasingly incapable of starting. We have a tractor whisperer who can get it started no mater what, but he does some things, like boost it off his car that I don't do. The main problem we seem to have is that the batteries go bad over the winter, and they seem like bad batteries, some of the other batteries we store are regularly fine to use after spending the winter being maintained in a non-freezing space. It is a motormaster battery, a Canadian brand, I have been assuming there might not be another brand easily found in New Brunswick.

I am not a tractor collector, and if this thing can't be made to work it needs to go. Which would be too bad, not least of all because there isn't anything to replace it. It is a tool to me, and I need it to start when I turn the switch, we get about 2 months up here, and I regularly spend a week or more fritzing with the tractor, and since I don't know what I am doing it is mostly a waste of time.

What I hear about 12 volt is that while it may be anathema to collectors, the tractors work. So assuming it has no major other faults (and it does start whenever the mechanic plays with it), would a 12 v system like this be worth trying?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALTERNATOR-CONV ... RTM1562569

Would electronic igniters be compatible and reduce the fiddle factor further. All I want is a tractor that works without my need to be a mechanic. I would be nice to be able to fix everything about tractors, but I have a guy who does that, and not even he can keep it running between visits any more.

I would obviously need some other parts like belts, battery, bulbs,... ?

You might well ask what the tractor mechanic thinks of all this. Hard to say, he doesn't tell one what to do. I asked one of his kids what he would do if the cub were his, and he unhesitatingly said he would convert it to 12V. The other thing is that while this guy can get anything started and builds his personal vehicles from scratch. He might not know what parts go into the exact kit to make a 12v system for this tractor. He may not have the time to spend getting ours set up when he basically work for us for fun and friendship. He has his own projects. But I think if I bought the parts and did my best, he would give it a look over.

Finally while there are pros and cons to a 12v vs 6 v system, if at the end of the day only an enthusiast for tractors can really run a unit like this at the age it is. If they are only ever reasonably reliable, I need to know that. I can't run the thing year round in my situation, and while it used to run fine, it just isn't getting enough use to be an asset unless something changes. Maybe what I want just isn't realistic, and I need to put the money in something else.

[Scrivet]

Before you go throwing parts at it to fix a problem you should figure out what the actual problem is. By throwing parts at it you may fix it and you may not. The six volt system can be reliable, after all it's what has been used for the last 60 years on your tractor. It could be a matter of bad (dirty, corroded, rusted) wiring connections that a little time spent removing one wire at a time and shine it up, replace and repeat with another wire. It could be a matter of the starter switch just not making good contact anymore. It could be a bad starter. It could be corrosion on the battery terminals, or internal to the battery cables.

I don't quite understand your batteries go bad comment. Is this a new battery that goes bad over the first winter? There are 6V battery charger/maintainers available at a reasonable cost (a lot cheaper than a new battery every year). Is there a drain on the battery while it's connected?

Once you figure out what is wrong then figure out how much it's going to cost to fix it. Then look at the total cost of changing to 12V. Do what's cheaper. Keep the old parts if you change to 12V. You or the next owner may want to put it back in the future.

There's going to be maintenance which ever way you go 6V or 12V. Greasing, oil changes, occasional adjustments. The Cub is perfectly reliable with a little TLC. If you plan on using it for a decade and never doing a thing to it sell it now.

[offrink]

My cub on a 6 volt system cranks very well and started in the -30 range this winter. It starts with no choke now we are in the summer and starts on the first crank of the hand crank if I want it to. We really need more information to help with the issues. Does it just crank and crank quickly? Have the fluids been changed and a tune up done? Is it timed correctly? Is it grounded well? Does it charge while running?

[Geezer]

I just inherited my dad's 1960 cub. It is still 6v and never failed to start when he needed to plow living in north east ohio. All considered well and in tune, these little 10hp or so tractors will crank on 6v admirably.

[Arthur Dent]

I'll second that Geezer. Once I learned the proper starting procedure, my dad's LoBoy cranks and starts very easily on it's 6v system. It charges just fine too.

[Smokeycub]

I second the others comments. Mine is also a 6 volt system and starts very reliably any time of the year. I don't use a maintainer but I do start it every couple of weeks or so when not in use. My tractor uses a cutout rather than a regulator so the battery on mine needs the electrolyte (water) checked and filled regularly, probably true of most 6 volt systems, if not then the battery will tend to go bad prematurely. In my opinion a 12 volt system isn't necessary.

[Jim Becker]

You didn't say what year your Cub is, so we don't know if Smokeycub's cut-out system comments apply in your case.

One of the main reasons often stated on this forum for doing a 12-volt conversion is that it costs less to convert than to repair the 6-volt system. However, those conversion are done by buying a rebuilt alternator for $30 or so, not spending $200 on a kit. The $200 kit price pretty thoroughly blows that argument.

Scrivet's suggestion that you need to get to the root of the problem is the right answer. If you are unwilling or unable to do that (yourself or hire it done), it strongly suggests his other suggestion that Cub ownership may no longer be the right thing for you. I make that comment while thinking about the fact that a 40 year old Cub was reliable enough for you 10 years ago and it shouldn't be any more difficult to have a reliable 50 year old Cub today.

You din't mention what you use the tractor for, so I can't suggest what brand new reliable tractor would be a suitable replacement.

[bythepond88]

I second Scrivet and Jim. There is a problem that needs to be tracked down and corrected. Your comment that batteries die and your whisperer sometimes jumps her from his car suggest a charging system problem. My 6v 59 lo-boy sat on the side of the garage this winter with nothing but a polytarp cover, temperatures in the minus ridiculous range for days at a time. This spring, she cranked and started just fine.

If you are not willing to do some wrenching, then sell her off. She's upwards of 50 years old, and will require periodic maintenance and care.

Fortunately, if you are willing to spend some time, these tractors are easy to work on and, for most repairs do not require any tools more exotic than a torque wrench. All the manuals you will need are right here on the forum. All the knowledge you need is right here, too, through the generous assistance of the members. We love questions and the opportunity to help.
For starters, here's a flowchart to test the charging system:

[ThomD]

Thanks for all the advice. Did this board change it's style while I was gone? I didn't recognize it and had to look up my contact info to be sure I was in the right place.

We had a minor wind storm, and I was without power for 12 days, and will be spending most of the summer cutting up trees.

The Cub is a 112xxx serial number which seems to make it a 1950.

Why do they have 12V systems in most stuff, and why do all modern tractors seem to use them?

We have trouble with the battery, because it is a summer place for us, and everything is unattended for 10 months. We live 1000 miles away, so we don't have space to take all the batteries with us. Normally we find someone local to take care of our battery. There may also be a quality issue as this is the only battery that conistantly craps out on us. My lawn tractor battery and such is not a problem. Last year the battery was in the care of our mechanic and he trickled it for us. But when we picked it up, it was not holding a charge. It is like two years old. The privious one we got was replaced on guarantee, and the one they gave us was bad to start, then we got the current one. Just tired of the whole thing. Seems like we have one battery choice, and one place to buy. 12 volt batteries are everywhere, not sure how many fit in the box.

I use it for light mowing, the fields need to be plowed, so recently that has been for the most part a no go. I use it to take the boat down on the beach where it is too rocky for my F-150. I am probably the only guy with an F-150 that is two wheel drive. And I use it for towing logs, trailer stuff. But last few years it is hardly used at all, because it never starts. Unless the mechanic comes by. What he normally seems to do is hit the battery with his truck battery as a charger, and then he starts here up. Someone mentioned the correct sequence. Not like I haven't been doing this for 55 years, or seeing it done, or that we don't have all the paper the tractor came with, but if someone could give me a dummies explanation of how to start it, that would be good.

To me the question isn't whether this thing runs in some people's hands on a six, the question is whether it would be more reliable as a 12. I get that some people don't believe that is the case. But obviously some people do, and I don't really see many who said why in the thread (got some email though. I do accept that it did at one point work as a 6v, in fact still does in the right hand. But I have probably spent on batteries what the conversion would have cost, at this point, i don't care about doing it the stylish way, I just want the tractor to start. For the last few years it mostly starts off the crank, which is in various ways dangerous depending what terrain the tractor is on, and hte various folks who get called in to help. If a 12V is a stronger cranking system that has it's appeal.

You have to appreciate the situation, there isn't any free help, there isn't anywhere within one hundred miles that sells stuff, the last time I made the pilgramige to get parts from the IH dealer, he gave me the wrong part. I could go over the wiring and conitnuity test it, or clean it, but if it requires brain surger, it isn't going to get done. It will get converted to lawn art, or maybe a mooring anchor for the boat. I need a reasonably implemented solution.

[offrink]

Make sure your battery cables are cleaned really well and all contact points. Hopefully sitting just has some corrosion on it.

[Boss Hog]

Group 26 battery fits nicely, I have done maybe a 100 12 volt conversions You will be glad you changed it over, much more reliable without all the maintenance. You still need to have good connections but you don't have to mess with it all the time.
There are some how to do on the change over
Boss

[Boss Hog]

viewtopic.php?f=140&t=47965
In the how to section at the top of page there are more

[hoosier]

All my cubs are 12v. Batteries are cheap and easy to get. Make sure everything ( carb, dist, plugs, gas tank, fluids......)are up to snuff then slide a 12v battery in the box and forget it. I know, I know it's a 6v charging system but one of my cubs coil and the other is magneto and they neither have had a batt charger on them. The old voltage regulators were loosie-goosie enought to keep the 12v batts charged. That's my theory anyway. I use my cubs (1948 and 1949)for mowing, plowing, pulling trucks out of the woods(don't ask) and they give little trouble. That being said I can work on them and I love them.

[Jim Becker]

Why do they have 12V systems in most stuff, and why do all modern tractors seem to use them?

http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=84948#p677923

[ThomD]

Well got her up and running, still on a 6V. Mechanic came along and boosted her with his Car started right up, and she started all day when I needed to re-start her. So far so good. None the less I appreciate all the support in this forum and offline, and I will still keep the 12V option open for later. It may suit my use personality a little better. But I have dodged a bullet for now. In addition to some fluid and grease issues I need to deal with, I have to get a new clamp for the negative terminal. It was cracked, and while it makes ok contact, so that the tractor starts when it is on the pole, it doesn't have any pressure. So I will switch that out, not a problem that would account for the past performance but it sure could be something that might have sent me on a wild goose chase should I run into some electrical problems down the road, and not be able to tell what from which.