This site uses cookies to maintain login information on FarmallCub.Com. Click the X in the banner upper right corner to close this notice. For more information on our privacy policy, visit this link: Privacy Policy
NEW REGISTERED MEMBERS: Be sure to check your SPAM/JUNK folders for the activation email.
Mower Belt Geometry
Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 am
- Zip Code: 04268
- Location: Norway Maine
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
Thanks for the picture Radec. That makes things clearer.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 12:26 pm
- Zip Code: 29325
- Skype Name: JRICK
- Tractors Owned: 1940 Allis Chalmers WC
1949 Farmall Cub "Haydee Bug"
1960 Massey Ferguson Diesel Deluxe
1950 Allis Chalmers "B"
1980 Power King Model 1616
1991 400A Belarus
1952 Massey Harris Pony - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
This post helped me with a belt problem I've been having for sometime now! That's the reason I try to read most all of the post...Thanks!
- Radec Aksarben
- 5+ Years
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:53 am
- Zip Code: 68736
- Tractors Owned: '48 Farmall Cub w/ IH-Danco C2 belly mower, full cultivator
'52 Farmall Cub w/ 193 plow, 28-A disk, flail mower, buzz saw, leveling blade,
misc cultivator parts and attachments
1450 Cub Cadet with mower deck (sold)
'49 Farmall M w/ factory disk brakes (not super style)
'51 International I-9 - rusty yellow (sold but in family) - Circle of Safety: Y
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
Ruffasacob wrote:Thanks for the picture Radec. That makes things clearer.
You're welcome
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 am
- Zip Code: 04268
- Location: Norway Maine
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
I didn't want to lose my factory hitch but I couldn't get the idlers in place with the hitch, so the hitch is off when the mower is on. I also made a drawbar as part of the idler mount. I'm making this up as I go, so I have some other questions.
Should the mounting arms in front of the rear axle be hinged so it can pivot up and down? Right now it's one piece of angle iron, (2 x 2 x 1/4"), from the mower to the back of the draw bar. It seems very rigid. Another drawback is I can't lift the deck the way it is now. I think I'm answering my own question that it should be flexible.
The deck seems like it would be sliding sideways in a hard turn, as is now, with the 2 rear wheels and one front roller that are on it. Would a pivoting set of wheels on front be better?
Once again thanks for any wisdom, Ruff
Should the mounting arms in front of the rear axle be hinged so it can pivot up and down? Right now it's one piece of angle iron, (2 x 2 x 1/4"), from the mower to the back of the draw bar. It seems very rigid. Another drawback is I can't lift the deck the way it is now. I think I'm answering my own question that it should be flexible.
The deck seems like it would be sliding sideways in a hard turn, as is now, with the 2 rear wheels and one front roller that are on it. Would a pivoting set of wheels on front be better?
Once again thanks for any wisdom, Ruff
-
- Team Cub
- Posts: 11851
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 pm
- Zip Code: 80501
- Tractors Owned: Cubs, MH Pony, Shaw, Allis G, 1934 Silver King, JD LA and LI, Gibson D, David Bradley Tri-Trac
- Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: CO, Longmont
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
The mower should pivot at the rear attachment points so you can raise or lower the mower. Most mowers hang in the front from either a chain or piece of flat stock steel. How do you plan to suspend the front of the mower deck? Three points of attachment should minimize lateral movement.
Bob
Bob
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 am
- Zip Code: 04268
- Location: Norway Maine
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
Ah ha!
Bob, are you saying the front of the mower is hanging off the rock shaft and not rolling on the roller my mower has in front?
I thought the mower sat on the ground with a slack chain, and you lifted when needed. That's why I thought the deck would skid around turns.
Hanging makes more sense. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go.
Bob, are you saying the front of the mower is hanging off the rock shaft and not rolling on the roller my mower has in front?
I thought the mower sat on the ground with a slack chain, and you lifted when needed. That's why I thought the deck would skid around turns.
Hanging makes more sense. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:00 am
- Zip Code: 31553
- Tractors Owned: 1966 Int'l Cub, C-2 mower 2005 Farm-Trac, 7ft Harrows and Box blade 1976 Int'l Cub, Woods 59 mower, Turn Plow, Full set of cultivators, Harrows, 174 Planter & Fertilizer unit 1953 Farmall Cub,full set of spring cultivators, wheel weights,
PTO belt pulley, snow plow and misc parts. - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: S/E Georgia
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
I visited the belt site Scrivet listed in his post above and cross referenced the 59 C2 woods # 4152 and it shows a "Woods Replacement Belt" 5/8 X 215" for $17.33. That's more than twice what I just paid for one. Has anyone on here used one of these belts? I know...I know, if it appears to good to be true. then it probably is! Just wondering again, Tom.
If you always do what you've always done -- you'll always get what you've always got!
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2929
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Location: MO, Potosi
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
A couple of design things to consider:
Get the deck as close to you can to the rear wheels. The distance between the rear wheels and deck will only change a little when you lift the deck. Closer to the wheels/shorter belt/less dollars for belt/less flop in the belt. It will also position the deck under the front rock shaft to make it easier to configure a straight up pull from the front half of the deck.
Never really looked closely but it seems to me the mule drive turn for the belts is pretty close to being in line with the rear hinge points for the deck. That would be to keep some tension on the belts when raising and lowering the deck and not have them go to slack and jump/fall off a pulley when raising the deck.
A visualization for you. Think of the mower deck like a door (or gate) laying flat and parallel to the ground. As has been mentioned it should hang from the tractor. The hinges are to the rear and the latch is up front. The wheels and skids are for uneven ground to keep the deck from scalping. When you lift the deck you are "opening" the door.
Personally, I wouldn't go to this much trouble. But seeing what you've done so far, I'm really rooting for you to get this thing to work now.
Get the deck as close to you can to the rear wheels. The distance between the rear wheels and deck will only change a little when you lift the deck. Closer to the wheels/shorter belt/less dollars for belt/less flop in the belt. It will also position the deck under the front rock shaft to make it easier to configure a straight up pull from the front half of the deck.
Never really looked closely but it seems to me the mule drive turn for the belts is pretty close to being in line with the rear hinge points for the deck. That would be to keep some tension on the belts when raising and lowering the deck and not have them go to slack and jump/fall off a pulley when raising the deck.
A visualization for you. Think of the mower deck like a door (or gate) laying flat and parallel to the ground. As has been mentioned it should hang from the tractor. The hinges are to the rear and the latch is up front. The wheels and skids are for uneven ground to keep the deck from scalping. When you lift the deck you are "opening" the door.
Personally, I wouldn't go to this much trouble. But seeing what you've done so far, I'm really rooting for you to get this thing to work now.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1050
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:47 am
- Zip Code: 44266
- Tractors Owned: 48 F Cub #11678
65 Cub Cadet 104
70 450C JD loader
67 Cub Cadet 107
90 B7100HST-D Kubota
72 Cub Cadet 149
54 Super C - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Ravenna, Ohio
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
What kind of 215" belt can you get for $8.62? ...and where? You said that deck is for a Cadet and I don't know if it uses a 5/8" belt which is what a Woods 59 would use.
I'm thinking you'll want make your connection at the back of the deck to the angle iron rigid, and like Bob said, pivot at the back where the angle iron connects to the tractor, which will take the wheels on the back of the deck out of business so to speak. Otherwise the deck will have difficulty keeping the belt on. I would try to copy how a Woods 59 C2, for example, is supported, which uses a rigid bar centered to the back at the mule drive (and allows for variable height settings) and two outer struts to maintain the decks position front to back and left to right. FWIW the Woods mule drive incorporates the Cubs drawbar.
A thought - If you could figure a way to "pull" the deck from the front of the tractor (rather than "push" from behind) like a tool bar, then you could use the rear wheels on the deck. I would want front casters as well and allow the deck to roll or float on the ground and have a better looking job of mowing.
I'm thinking you'll want make your connection at the back of the deck to the angle iron rigid, and like Bob said, pivot at the back where the angle iron connects to the tractor, which will take the wheels on the back of the deck out of business so to speak. Otherwise the deck will have difficulty keeping the belt on. I would try to copy how a Woods 59 C2, for example, is supported, which uses a rigid bar centered to the back at the mule drive (and allows for variable height settings) and two outer struts to maintain the decks position front to back and left to right. FWIW the Woods mule drive incorporates the Cubs drawbar.
A thought - If you could figure a way to "pull" the deck from the front of the tractor (rather than "push" from behind) like a tool bar, then you could use the rear wheels on the deck. I would want front casters as well and allow the deck to roll or float on the ground and have a better looking job of mowing.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 am
- Zip Code: 04268
- Location: Norway Maine
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
Thanks for the ideas. I thought about pulling the deck when I first started, but noticed most other setups pushed, so that's what I did. The deck will be close to the tires when finished. All good ideas, thanks Scrivet.
I didn't want to have to reinvent the wheel with this, but it's been fun. I like welding and the frame is just two pieces of angle, notched and bent at 30 degrees, and welded at the point of the draw bar. I will hinge the frame at the front of the axle and get the idlers mounted, and the deck attached to the frame, all just in time for the first frost and the end of the mowing season.
I didn't want to have to reinvent the wheel with this, but it's been fun. I like welding and the frame is just two pieces of angle, notched and bent at 30 degrees, and welded at the point of the draw bar. I will hinge the frame at the front of the axle and get the idlers mounted, and the deck attached to the frame, all just in time for the first frost and the end of the mowing season.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:00 am
- Zip Code: 31553
- Tractors Owned: 1966 Int'l Cub, C-2 mower 2005 Farm-Trac, 7ft Harrows and Box blade 1976 Int'l Cub, Woods 59 mower, Turn Plow, Full set of cultivators, Harrows, 174 Planter & Fertilizer unit 1953 Farmall Cub,full set of spring cultivators, wheel weights,
PTO belt pulley, snow plow and misc parts. - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: S/E Georgia
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
Smokeycub, I apologize, my previous post should have stated that $ 17.33 was less than 1/2 of what I just paid for a replacement belt. Funny thing, yesterday prior to a hip injection I had to sign a paper stating I wouldn't make any important decisions nor conduct important communications for 24 hours after the procedure. I thought it was hogwash but I guess they know their job. Anyhow, sorry for the error. Hope this clears the matter, thanks, Tom.
If you always do what you've always done -- you'll always get what you've always got!
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 am
- Zip Code: 04268
- Location: Norway Maine
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
I finished the frame today. Of course I couldn't measure for the belt until it was finished so that's on order,(thanks for the link Scrivet). It turned out to be 141". I've still got to paint it, but I'll do that while I'm waiting for the belt. This turned out to be a lot more of a project than I first thought, (isn't it always). I changed the design I first had in mind for the hinge. I ended up welding a pipe across the frame and inside that is a smaller pipe that is welded to the two attaching arms that go to the mower. It's not a super tight fit, but it won't move too much. I also put a grease fitting on it so I can fill the small space between the two pipes with grease. This will allow the mower to float easily. I made 2" slots in the mower arms to help with the belt tension if I need it. The idlers have a built in adjustment for any fine tuning. To be honest I'm not sure if the belt alignment will be correct or not. I used straight edges and plumb bobs and sighting by eye. The only way to tell will be to mount the belt and try it. I'll report back with the results when I get the belt. Thanks to all for the ideas.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 1050
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:47 am
- Zip Code: 44266
- Tractors Owned: 48 F Cub #11678
65 Cub Cadet 104
70 450C JD loader
67 Cub Cadet 107
90 B7100HST-D Kubota
72 Cub Cadet 149
54 Super C - Circle of Safety: Y
- Location: Ravenna, Ohio
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
It's looking good! You are right, this sort of project is always time consuming. ...but I love doing this kind of project. I like your hinge concept, I hope it won't interfere with your belt, you should get some lateral up and down motion with it. Are you installing swivel casters on the front of the deck as well?
It will probably never be perfect, few are, but it's way better than it was. Definitely want to see the finished product and find out how it works.
Ruffasacob wrote: I'm not sure if the belt alignment will be correct or not.
It will probably never be perfect, few are, but it's way better than it was. Definitely want to see the finished product and find out how it works.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:31 am
- Zip Code: 04268
- Location: Norway Maine
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
After some time with other projects I got to finish the mower this morning. Of course there were some kinks to iron out. When I painted the frame and put things back together, I tried the mower under power and all was not well. I kept ignoring the fact that the drive pulley on top of the mower from the idlers was bent, I was hoping it wouldn't matter. Also after remounting the frame for the last time, the belt just rubbed on the cross bar as it traveled over it. One or both of these things made the belt on the side that traveled to the deck really jump around. So I decided to kill two birds with one stone and make a 3" pulley extension. First I got a new cast iron pulley to replace the bent one. It's .20" smaller to speed up the blades just a tuppence. I collect old machine tools so I have lathes and milling machines to do this kind of work. I did wonder if the bearing might work a little harder with the extension, but time will tell. So I put it back together this morning and tried it out. The belt runs much better now. The quality of the grass cutting isn't as good as I was hoping for, but part of that , I hope, was that the grass was too long. I did sharpen the blades before they went back on. I'll try it next time with the grass shorter and see if that helps. One thing I just thought of that isn't helping the "finish" of the grass is I still have ag tires on the tractor. I'd love to find a set of turf tires and I bet that would help.
Overall I'm pleased with the results. Once again thanks to the fine folks here for all the help.
Overall I'm pleased with the results. Once again thanks to the fine folks here for all the help.
-
- 10+ Years
- Posts: 2929
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 pm
- Zip Code: 63664
- Location: MO, Potosi
Re: Mower Belt Geometry
Shorter grass will definitely make a better finish cut. I don't think turf tires would make much difference in the finish look. Pulling the grass out by the roots when you spin the tires or leave tracks when it's a little muddy, yes they can do that though. I didn't read back through to make sure but I'm sure someone has mentioned deck attitude. It needs to be just slightly (1/4") lower in the front than in the back for optimum cutting. If it's tilted more than that either way it can leave troughs and ridges between the blades. Just imagine the blades sitting at a 45 degree angle and what kind of shape they would leave. For eveything away from flat that's what you are trying to do. Over all I'm glad it turned out for you, I hope you get some enjoyment from using something you created yourself.Ruffasacob wrote:.......I'll try it next time with the grass shorter and see if that helps. One thing I just thought of that isn't helping the "finish" of the grass is I still have ag tires on the tractor. I'd love to find a set of turf tires and I bet that would help.
Overall I'm pleased with the results. Once again thanks to the fine folks here for all the help......
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Tom Clark and 39 guests