Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

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Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby vwfish » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:00 pm

Ok, I'm about to set my cub on fire!!

I've been having problems with the clutch since I bought the tractor last year. I would adjust the travel, which is a major pain on this tractor as the only adjusting point I can see is the clevis inside the inspection hole, and had to continuously fiddle with it for proper operation (very annoying). Anyway the throw out bearing finally ate itself. I ordered a new clutch kit, split the tractor and replaced everything. I adjusted the pressure plate fingers to 7/8" per the instructions, verified clearance and all seemed well. Problem is, there isn't enough travel to fully release the transmission, so the gears grind. Bewildered, I pulled the tractor apart again, and raised the fingers to 1 1/8". That caused me to have to move the clevis back to keep the proper clearance between the throw out and the pressure plate.....so, same problem.


Any suggestions from the experts out there?
:lost:

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby Boss Hog » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:12 pm

to start with it should be an 1 and a 1/4 and you needed to grease the pilot bushing if you didnt, when you had it apart . and some clutch kits are junk
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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby BIGHOSS » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:24 pm

No meaning to hijack this thread, but I always meant to ask this question and never got around to it. Can the non-adjustable clutch rod assy that came on the early cubs be changed out to a later adjustable one?
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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby tst » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:36 pm

yes, just use the later style pedal/tube and linkage

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby Scrivet » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:25 pm

vwfish wrote:........ I would adjust the travel, which is a major pain on this tractor as the only adjusting point I can see is the clevis inside the inspection hole, and had to continuously fiddle with it for proper operation (very annoying).
Please explain "continuously fiddle with it" in a little more detail. Once it's set nothings going to change it except eventual wear on the TOB. This may be a clue to something else wrong.

vwfish wrote:............Problem is, there isn't enough travel to fully release the transmission, so the gears grind. Bewildered, I pulled the tractor apart again, and raised the fingers to 1 1/8". That caused me to have to move the clevis back to keep the proper clearance between the throw out and the pressure plate.....so, same problem.
Boss has already covered some of the points here but what is the condition of the TOB graphite now? Just because it's reatively new doesn't mean it's still in good shape, especially if it was not oiled/greased and marinated ahead of time either by coming that way or you doing it.

Couple of other questions;
Are you sure you're measuring the finger height in the correct place and all three are absoulutely equal? Somebody will link to a great picture of where to measue for you :wink: I'll bet! HInt, hint, somebody?????
What was the reason for the "new clutch kit and replaced everything"? Was something definitely bad or since you had to split the tractor might as well? Do you still have the old parts?

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby vwfish » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:24 pm

Thanks Scrivet for asking some questions that may help unravel this.

First, this is an early style clutch linkage so the adjustments have to be made through the hand hole (viewing hole) in the bottom of the tractor.
In order to adjust the clutch pedal travel, I have to remove the pin from the clevis, remove the bolt holding the bottom of the yoke together, drop the clevis down, adjust it and put it all back together again....this seems odd. Additionally there is quite a bit of slop when the yoke bolt is removed, so if I'm not careful when reassembling everything the distance from the bearing to the plate fingers will change....this too seems odd.

I had to fiddle with it to keep the gears from grinding and/or keep the bearing from running into the plate adjustment bolts. 1/2 turn on the clevis was all it took. Eventually the graphite on the bearing disintegrated. When I opened the hand hole cover, pieces of graphite literally fell out.
I purchased a whole kit as I wasn't sure what I was going to find when I pulled it apart. Once pulled apart I decided to just replace everything because of the strange issues I described above. The new throw out bearing does not have graphite. It is a thrust bearing type and actually spins with the plate fingers instead of rubbing against them like the graphite ones.

The clutch kit came with directions and pictures, so I'm fairly certain I am measuring the finger height correctly. Now here is the odd thing. If I adjust the fingers, I have to make a corresponding adjustment in the pedal or the bearing will not be the correct distance from the fingers. In other words, no matter where I adjust the fingers (and they are all exactly the same height), I have to adjust the clevis to keep the clearances correct so the actual distance the fingers travel doesn't change and the gears grind.

So the issue seems to be that with the correct bearing to finger clearance (1/8"), there isn't enough travel to fully engage the clutch and therefore the gears grind.

On the early bearing yokes, was there a need to push the bearing as far forward in the yoke (push the yoke back as far as possible) and then tighten the yoke bolt?
After sitting and thinking about this whole thing, I'm wondering if the issue isn't with the yoke?

Thanks for any ideas!!

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby vwfish » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:29 pm

Forgot to mention.....the issue I'm having now with everything replaced (but the yoke) is nearly identical to the issue I was having that eventually ate the graphite off the throw out bearing.

Thanks guys!!

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby Scrivet » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:06 pm

vwfish wrote:........In order to adjust the clutch pedal travel, I have to remove the pin from the clevis, remove the bolt holding the bottom of the yoke together, drop the clevis down, adjust it and put it all back together again....this seems odd.
Nope, just 1940's technology on the cheap. A Cub was originally designed to be inexpensive and last seven years. Luckily IH came to their senses after making about 32,000 of them and came up with a better way of pedal adjustment.

vwfish wrote:Additionally there is quite a bit of slop when the yoke bolt is removed, so if I'm not careful when reassembling everything the distance from the bearing to the plate fingers will change....this too seems odd.
This does seem odd. Where is the slop at? As you mention this seems to be where the issue is.

vwfish wrote:The clutch kit came with directions and pictures, so I'm fairly certain I am measuring the finger height correctly.
Are these the same directions that said to set the finger height to 7/8"? Don't know how much I'd trust them. Unless the 7/8" is something special for the thrust bearing. Did the "kit" include the TOB or did you get it seperately?


vwfish wrote:Now here is the odd thing. If I adjust the fingers, I have to make a corresponding adjustment in the pedal or the bearing will not be the correct distance from the fingers. In other words, no matter where I adjust the fingers (and they are all exactly the same height), I have to adjust the clevis to keep the clearances correct so the actual distance the fingers travel doesn't change and the gears grind.
One measurement is dependent on the other. If you put bigger tires on your truck then you'll need to get a bigger drop hitch to keep the trailer level. Put the small tires back on and now the hitch will drag so you have to go back to the shorter drop to level out the trailer.


The picture I thought somebody would post is in this thread and the whole thing is good reading for the present situation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55075&p=454840&hilit=finger+height+point#p454840


About the thrust bearing; Read this post and pay close attention to the pictures and my comment at the end of the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82134&p=657299&hilit=+bearing#p657299

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby vwfish » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:13 am

This does seem odd. Where is the slop at? As you mention this seems to be where the issue is.

When I tighten the yoke bolt it would seem the bearing can move enough to change the distance between the bearing and the fingers.

Are these the same directions that said to set the finger height to 7/8"? Don't know how much I'd trust them. Unless the 7/8" is something special for the thrust bearing. Did the "kit" include the TOB or did you get it seperately?

The directions came with the clutch kit. It stated the fingers may have to be adjusted from 7/8" up to 1 1/4" depending on ware and such. I got the kit and bearing from Yesterday's Tractor Co.

One measurement is dependent on the other. If you put bigger tires on your truck then you'll need to get a bigger drop hitch to keep the trailer level. Put the small tires back on and now the hitch will drag so you have to go back to the shorter drop to level out the trailer.

That's exactly my point. No matter where I set the fingers I have to adjust the pedal which makes sense, but I can't seem to get enough movement to fully release the transmission. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the finger adjustment is primarily to ensure the bearing doesn't run into the plate?

Thanks for the links. One discussion caught my attention regarding bearing wear and the yoke hanger.
The throwout bearing had an unusual wear pattern before it blew apart. Kind of a , "hill and valley" appearance. In other words if you looked at it from the side and slowly rotated it, some areas would be worn down further that other areas. I attached a crude rendering of the wear. A picture of the bearing at this point won't help much as the graphite is completely gone.
I wonder if that hanger is wore out?
And one other thing, now that I calmed down a bit and thought about it some more, one of the yokes appeared to have a slight bow in it.
Does that give further evidence of a worn yoke assembly?

Question, would you take that old assembly out and replace it with the newer type? I realize I would have to split the tractor in two places, replace everything including the pedal, but I wonder if it isn't worth the effort to have an easier clutch adjustment when it's all said and done.

I appreciate the advice and apologize for my ignorance. Just getting into this hobby and clearly I have much to learn.
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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:42 am

BIGHOSS wrote:No meaning to hijack this thread, but I always meant to ask this question and never got around to it. Can the non-adjustable clutch rod assy that came on the early cubs be changed out to a later adjustable one?
I did that on my 47 with the loader. have to split at transmission, change the pedal assembly with the carrier tube that goes over the brake shaft, the rod, and the throwout carrier assembly. the carrier assembly can be replaced through the hand hole, but is much easier if you also split at engine.
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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:46 am

fish, did you by chance change the carrier/hanger assembly for the throwout bearing when you were working on it?
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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby vwfish » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:57 am

fish, did you by chance change the carrier/hanger assembly for the throwout bearing when you were working on it?


No John I didn't, but the more I think about what's going on along with some of the comments and suggestions on this thread I think that is the next step along with the bearing yokes.
Would you agree?

Looking like another $100 in parts. The Mrs. is not going to be happy with that.

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby Bill Hudson » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:58 am

When I was having trouble with a TOB, this is what I found, a TOB hanger rod that was toast.
Image

Image

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby vwfish » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:00 pm

That hanger is supposed to go straight across, no groves?

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Re: Clutch Adjustment Problem.....HELP!!!

Postby tmays » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:01 pm

vwfish wrote:That hanger is supposed to go straight across, no groves?

Correct, no grooves
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