2 hours then Quits

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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby bythepond88 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:42 pm

Is she dead, or are you saying that you can start her after she has sat for a bit, but will quit after two hours? If you are able to get her started, my guess is that your coil is on the way out, probably because of that mis-matched voltage regulater. My guess is that the VR allowed the generator to put out too much voltage and the coil is overheating. I had a VR (a proper 6V) that was brand new, but allowed the genny to put out 7.8 volts - and I had the same symptoms. She would die after about 2 hours. Once she cooled down, she would start fine.

It appears that after she died, she would still crank from the starter. If that is the case, she is not dying because the battery was drained. It takes a lot more juice to turn the engine than it does to power the ignition once running.

If she is starting when she has sat for a while, the next time she dies, touch the coil. If it is too hot to touch, that is your problem.
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Rocket Man » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:30 pm

thanks
It did this 2 weeks ago and sat for 5 days then I got it to start and took it too the mechanic,
I hope to charge the battery get it too start and get it in the barn.
I will check to make sure the 12 volt reg is just the case otherwise what else could I have fried,
in the end the rain was bad here so I quit the repair and covered it up well.

the coil was getting rather hot today after trying to fire it a few times.,
I read that there should be oil in the coil to cool ....
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Rocket Man » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:31 pm

bythepond88 wrote:Is she dead, or are you saying that you can start her after she has sat for a bit, but will quit after two hours? If you are able to get her started, my guess is that your coil is on the way out, probably because of that mis-matched voltage regulater. My guess is that the VR allowed the generator to put out too much voltage and the coil is overheating. I had a VR (a proper 6V) that was brand new, but allowed the genny to put out 7.8 volts - and I had the same symptoms. She would die after about 2 hours. Once she cooled down, she would start fine.

It appears that after she died, she would still crank from the starter. If that is the case, she is not dying because the battery was drained. It takes a lot more juice to turn the engine than it does to power the ignition once running.

If she is starting when she has sat for a while, the next time she dies, touch the coil. If it is too hot to touch, that is your problem.



Not dead just nothing catches turns over but no fire
......
I will try cranking it tomorrow crank was at the house
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Rudi » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:58 pm

1. Change the coil. That is the problem. If you have no fire, there is no way it will start.
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:20 am

So, the - post of the battery is connected to the frame of the tractor, and the + goes to the starter?

These old tractors don't have any electronics, so you didn't fry anything by switching ground. They will run just fine either way. All you have to do is swap wires on the ammeter to get it to read properly, and polarize the generator. If you're lazy you can get away with just polarizing the generator.

But, since you've got the wrong regulator on there you may as well put it back to + ground after you've put the correct regulator on.
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Rocket Man » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:06 am

Thanks Matt
I wonder if the 12 volt Reg would fry the coil
and do I need a special coil or are they easy to get.
Wondering what wires get moved on the coil to make it Positive ground

And yes the postive is the ground
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby bythepond88 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:59 pm

Rocket Man wrote:I wonder if the 12 volt Reg would fry the coil


If the VR was letting it overcharge, then it could have damaged the coil.

Rocket Man wrote:and do I need a special coil or are they easy to get.


A 6v coil is a 6v coil. You can get them at Autozone or NAPA or most any auto parts store. The Autozone coil is significantly less than than NAPA and carries a 2 yr warranty. It's not going to look the same, and you won't be able to get the second bolt back in place on the hold down clamp (although you can spring the clamp out to slip it in and it will hold the coil fine with just the one bolt), but it will work fine.

Rocket Man wrote:Wondering what wires get moved on the coil to make it Positive ground


If the tractor was negative ground when it was running, and you have not moved the wires since you started having trouble, just swap the two wires on the coil around. I think that the power wire is supposed to go to the opposite terminal as the tractor ground (i.e. to negative terminal on positive ground tractor), but am not sure.

If you were able to get the tractor started again after she died the first time, I agree with Rudi that the coil is likely your problem. Don't forget to get the correct VR, or you're going to have the same problem again.
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Rocket Man » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:15 pm

So from all the great advice here and not resloving the 12 volt reg it ran today its in the barn and starts first pull.

The mechanic told me that the tractor was now neg ground
it came pos ground.
He removed the generator and it was checked at a great gen shop and they said it was fine he then attached the new reg points cap wires cleaned the carb.
So the battery was reading 6 .09 so I charged it to 6.65 but switched my battery leads then found that were the reg was attached had come lose and perhaps some wires and screws were touching and might cause a short.
So i removed it and fixed some of the wires leads from shorting anywhere .
Then with better bolts reattached the reg to the cub.
I should have pulled then but the help was very methodical and wanted to check everything first,
but first pull it started.

The battery lost a bit but then gained back up but not full.
So should I wait to the mechanic gets back from a trip and ask whats been done and whats up with the 12 v reg and park the cub,
or run for work and see what he says on his return and go from there.

Again thanks to all here amazing help.
It ran from the advice here,
as well thru in some d21 and checked the dwell and compression
compression was
1 82 2 91 3 88 4 92
thanks
Rocket Man


b
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Rocket Man » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:31 pm

As well how do I test the reg to see if it is 12 or 6 volt
thanks
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby Rudi » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:46 pm

This might be of help - Cutout and Regulator tests and adjustments. Maybe this one too - Generator and Cut-Out
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Re: 2 hours then Quits

Postby bythepond88 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:56 am

Rocket Man wrote:As well how do I test the reg to see if it is 12 or 6 volt


Start her up and (with an analog meter) check the voltage at the battery. If the VR is functioning as a 6V, the voltage should be somewhere between 6.5 and 7.2. If it is more than 7.2 it is overcharging and will weaken your coil if not burn it out completely.
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