Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby Rudi » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:41 pm

Scott:

ScottJ wrote:1 - Get cylinder #1 to TDC (using a flashlight, and the second notch on my pulley)


Wrong. Use the 1st notch as there is no BTDC with a mag, it must be TDC.

GSS-1012 Electrical Equipment

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Read these articles from the CBoK:

How To TIme A Magneto - Method #1
How To Time A Magneto - Method #2
How To Understand Firing Order
How to time a Magneto-Equipped Cub...film at 11:00


Whoever played with your Magneto did you no favours at all. But you can fix it and I would recommend that you do that. Yes, external coil will but it isn't a great fix. Been there, done that on a couple Cubs. I have found that putting the mag back to original sure helps in the future operation and maintenance of the Cub.

Example : 352355R91 New Farmall IH Magneto Winding Coil Cub & Cub Lo Boy C60 w/ J-4 Type

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This one is on the tad expensive side, but they can be found on eBay for around $60.00 US.

251502R11 IH International Farmall Cub Cub LoBoy Magneto J4 Coil Cover w/ Gasket

You should be able to find a good used cap c/w the screws. You will have to make a gasket for it though.

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This is the parts breakdown and you can see what it is you are missing. The most difficult part to find is the coil core -- that would be item# 11. Now, mind you, your mag is probably alright .. and would probably be a good candidate to bring back to original. Take you time and source the parts economically. The coil that I pointed to is ok .. it is an AI coil, not sure where it is made. Most of the time I recommend Mainely Magnetos as I have heard a lot of really good reviews about them. The other option is to find on eBay a complete magneto for a reasonable price. I was lucky and patient and found 2 different mags ... eventually paying less than $50.00 for each .. a lot less but I can't remember what the actual prices were. Just have to watch, be patient and ready to pounce when the time is right ... like 10 seconds before the auction end :lol:

You will have to decide which way to go, but experience has taught me that it is best to put things back the way that they were.

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I know that this is a little bit late, but ..

Image to Farmallcub.com :big smile: Forum Family. And you have come to the right place for all things Cub related. If you click on the Site Rules, Regulations, & Important Information, it will point you to :arrow: the Welcome Wagon wherein you will find links to many useful sites and topics. One of which is the Cub Manual Server. Enjoy!.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby ScottJ » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:08 pm

Rudi wrote:
ScottJ wrote:1 - Get cylinder #1 to TDC (using a flashlight, and the second notch on my pulley)


Wrong. Use the 1st notch as there is no BTDC with a mag, it must be TDC.


Alright - I'm still reading through the rest, but I wanted to say that I can see with a flashlight through the spark plug hole that the 1st mark is BTDC, and the 2nd mark is the actual TDC. When I hand crank it and I come to the 1st notch (after feeling pressure with my thumb) looking in the hole shows the piston not quite to the top, and when the piston does reach TDC I am right at the second mark.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby RaymondDurban » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:16 pm

Scott, you are correct.
Normally a Cub with a Mag has a pulley with just one notch, but since yours has two notches, then the second notch is what you want to time the Mag with.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:18 pm

ScottJ wrote:Alright - I'm still reading through the rest, but I wanted to say that I can see with a flashlight through the spark plug hole that the 1st mark is BTDC, and the 2nd mark is the actual TDC. When I hand crank it and I come to the 1st notch (after feeling pressure with my thumb) looking in the hole shows the piston not quite to the top, and when the piston does reach TDC I am right at the second mark.

Yes. The second notch is TDC and that is what you time a mag to. Most mag equipped tractors have pulleys with only one notch (TDC).

You really need to have a working impulse coupling (the click you don't have) to properly time a magneto. With the problems known and unknown in your magneto, you will probably be way ahead to replace it with another unit that is more easily repaired. You can replace with either another magneto or a battery ignition unit.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby ScottJ » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:25 pm

Jim Becker wrote:With the problems known and unknown in your magneto, you will probably be way ahead to replace it with another unit that is more easily repaired.


That's certainly making more and more sense to me now. Since this has already been converted to a 12v with a coil, should I look at going the distributor route? Seems like I'm a little ways in that direction already.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby ScottJ » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:27 pm

RaymondDurban wrote:Scott, you are correct.


Thanks! I think that's the first time in this entire thread that I got something right. haha! Could I get that framed?
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby Rick Spivey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:19 am

Scott,

As the guys said, it sounds as if the impulse coupling isn't working. To check this further, remove the mag from the engine, and attempt to spin it using the drive lugs. It will spin in one direction (opposite to the normal direction of rotation), but if you go the other direction, it should come up against a stop, and be very difficult to turn past it. Also, I'm not sure if you reported back on whether the rotor and pinion were timed to each other correctly. That is mandatory, you will never get it to run correctly unless they are correct. I have impulse parts if we get that far, and the culprit is there. But I am still suspecting the timing is what actually has changed from before, when it ran. Also, part 11 that Rudi referred to is almost impossible to find, except in a donor magneto. If you should decide to restore your magneto to working order, let me know, I can assist with advice or parts.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby ScottJ » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:30 am

Rick Spivey wrote:As the guys said, it sounds as if the impulse coupling isn't working. To check this further, remove the mag from the engine, and attempt to spin it using the drive lugs. It will spin in one direction (opposite to the normal direction of rotation), but if you go the other direction, it should come up against a stop, and be very difficult to turn past it.

I feel no resistance at all except for what feels like the magnets. Its the same in both directions. Certainly nothing that could be defined as "very difficult to turn part".

Rick Spivey wrote:Also, I'm not sure if you reported back on whether the rotor and pinion were timed to each other correctly.

They are NOW. :-) That could very well be what was wrong before. It still lined up with #1 plug, so I probably had the mag itself 180 off.

Now I gotta figure out how to get this magneto to open up. The nut on the drive end is pretty stubborn, and the rest just wants to spin.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby Rudi » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:05 am

Scott:

You right, I wrong. I always get that messed up. Mostly I guess cause I have the single notch. Disregard that comment. You are doing real well -- keep it up. Rest of it is just general info.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby Rick Spivey » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:01 pm

ScottJ wrote:
Rick Spivey wrote:As the guys said, it sounds as if the impulse coupling isn't working. To check this further, remove the mag from the engine, and attempt to spin it using the drive lugs. It will spin in one direction (opposite to the normal direction of rotation), but if you go the other direction, it should come up against a stop, and be very difficult to turn past it.

I feel no resistance at all except for what feels like the magnets. Its the same in both directions. Certainly nothing that could be defined as "very difficult to turn part".

Rick Spivey wrote:Also, I'm not sure if you reported back on whether the rotor and pinion were timed to each other correctly.

They are NOW. :-) That could very well be what was wrong before. It still lined up with #1 plug, so I probably had the mag itself 180 off.

Now I gotta figure out how to get this magneto to open up. The nut on the drive end is pretty stubborn, and the rest just wants to spin.


Scott,

It takes a special puller to remove the impulse coupling. Please Don't try it with a gear puller, I broke the mounting plate on one that way, and they are no longer available either. Perhaps someone near you has the puller to loan, or you could get to a cubfest, or you could send the mag to one of us to fix if you want.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby ScottJ » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:55 pm

Rick Spivey wrote:It takes a special puller to remove the impulse coupling. Please Don't try it with a gear puller, I broke the mounting plate on one that way, and they are no longer available either. Perhaps someone near you has the puller to loan, or you could get to a cubfest, or you could send the mag to one of us to fix if you want.


Bummer, that not what I was hoping to hear.

This walkthough is the only thing I could find on this, unless there is something in the manuals I've missed. Incidentally, this says to use a gear puller.
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Mainte ... 0Clean.htm

Tonight we tried squirting a bunch of WD-40 in the magneto, and then thumping it against the wooden workbench to see if we could free something up. We could feel some catching after that. Obviously not a "fix", per se, but to me it was at least an indicator that I'm heading in the right direction.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby Rudi » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:42 pm

Donny Millar was real good at rebuilding magnetos. I have one of his rebuilds and it is wrapped and ready for whichever Cub actually gets completely restored. If .. IF you follow Donny's directions and take your time and work with care you can do it with a gear puller. The tool Rick is referring to is a specialized tool.

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It is still available I think.

ScottJ wrote:Tonight we tried squirting a bunch of WD-40 in the magneto, and then thumping it against the wooden workbench to see if we could free something up. We could feel some catching after that. Obviously not a "fix", per se, but to me it was at least an indicator that I'm heading in the right direction.


I am not sure why folks think WD-40 is the fluid to use as a penetrating oil. It isn't. It is a Water Displacement formulation -- #40 which is why it is called WD-40. It is great to displace water and is useful in the cap. If you want to take that mag apart without damaging the parts, suggest you use a real penetrating oil such as Solvo-Rust, PB Blaster, Nut Buster, Kroil etc., Since the coil isn't there, there is nothing to be damaged by using a good penetrating oil so I would suggest you do that. Keep spritzing it in there often -- it should start freeing up. Do not try pulling that cover without using a good penetrating oil first. Rick is also correct, they are no longer available anymore.

Here is an eBay search for Farmall Cub Magnetos. They are NOT cheap, so care must be taken.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby cub47 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:48 pm

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Farmertan (Mike) a forum member out of Dewey, OK had some available at his shop at last week's OK Cubfest, maybe he will chime in regarding whether or not he still has some on hand.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby ScottJ » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:50 pm

Rudi wrote:I am not sure why folks think WD-40 is the fluid to use as a penetrating oil. It isn't. It is a Water Displacement formulation -- #40 which is why it is called WD-40. It is great to displace water and is useful in the cap. If you want to take that mag apart without damaging the parts, suggest you use a real penetrating oil such as Solvo-Rust, PB Blaster, Nut Buster, Kroil etc., Since the coil isn't there, there is nothing to be damaged by using a good penetrating oil so I would suggest you do that. Keep spritzing it in there often -- it should start freeing up. Do not try pulling that cover without using a good penetrating oil first. Rick is also correct, they are no longer available anymore.

Here is an eBay search for Farmall Cub Magnetos. They are NOT cheap, so care must be taken.


I knew I was going to take some flak for using WD-40 :-). I know it's not penetrating oil, but it was close by, and we (my dad came over and was helping out) knew we were going to have to open it up no matter what - so it was worth a try just to see what happened.

I have been looking at replacement magnetos and distributors - so I'm aware they aren't cheap at all. I found someone right in town that tears down and parts out Cubs - so I'm going to talk to him about if he has mag parts.

I'd like to try the gear puller, but I'll definitely be careful and abort early if it's not budging, and I'll make sure the use the penetrating oil.
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Re: Won't run after sitting in the rain :-(

Postby Rick Spivey » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:17 am

Your call on the gear puller, I'm just telling you what happened to me. The impulse coupling is composed of a thin plate, on which the centrifugal weights ride on 2 pins, with small, fragile springs. That whole assembly is carried inside a "bell", the back side of which is facing you when you look at that end of the mag. You will have to remove the nut and washers in the center, while holding the bell in one position (there is a small hole in the side, use a drift or punch). Then the bell needs to be removed, that is not too difficult. After that you are facing the back side of the small plate. There is very little room to get the gear puller jaws, due to the weights/springs. And you cannot get the jaws anywhere near center, so you are pulling on the extreme outside diameter. I doubt that you will get any warning before it either loosens off the tapered shaft, or breaks.
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